Things wanted for next expansion?

[Exiled_Tonberry]

The answer is style. They will keep adding jobs and this time Tanks and Helaers should have their additions.

I understand where you're coming from, but I think people will be more upset than happy if we get a healer that plays like another previous healer again.
Like, say we do get a new healer, Dancer maybe since everyone loves that. But instead of the unique ideas like melee combos that everyone wants, it has a DoT, 1 spammable single target attack, one spammable aoe attack, and the standard Cure I/II, Medica I/II, Cure III equivalent and the only thing unique about it is some utility.

Obviously it could end up being unique, but I have no faith that SE can create a unique healer in this game at this point, let alone balance it.

[Mahrze]

The answer is style. They will keep adding jobs and this time Tanks and Helaers should have their additions.

That being said, players want a new tank and healer because three of each is just not a lot.

It'll be 3.0 AST balance requests all over again. Half the reasons why AST currently plays as it does is because players kept asking for things on it to work akin to WHM or SCH. The dev team is always in a catch 22 with any role because if its too "unique", people complain and if its too similar the result is the same.

But hey, all in the name of style and choice, right? I am sure RDMs and SAMs agree with you 100%

[Khalithar]

Adding a new tank and healer can work, but they need to fix the mistakes of their previous addition of new jobs:

1. Drk/Ast/Mch starting at 30 is way too low. They should have started at 50 so that anyone that wanted to go through the expansion with the new jobs at 50 could have been able to. They repeated the mistake with rdm/sam by starting them at 50 instead of 60. Dear SE, NEW JOBS NEED TO START AT WHATEVER THE PREVIOUS CAP WAS. Rdm/sam should have started at 60, Drk/Ast/Mch should have started at 50.

2. Drk/Mch/Ast were underpowered as hell when they were implemented and while they weren't necessarily bad, they were nowhere near as strong as they should have been.

3. They need to be more fun to play. They did a better job of this with Sam/Rdm as both jobs feel great to play as soon as you pick them up with unique mechanics that are easy enough to grasp and all of their abilities after build on the core concepts. As opposed to Drk/Mch which used radically different mechanics (MP management with constant MP loss, certain stance locked abilities, ammo, RNG on combos) and then they got some pretty drastic changes in gameplay style with things like the blood and heat gauges and the nerf to Blood Price MP regen.

TL: DR version:

1. New jobs in next expansion need to start at 70, this is not debatable.
2. The jobs need to be strong enough to make people want to play them.
3. Their playstyle/gimmick needs to be easy to grasp and figure out while also being rewarding to whoever masters them.

[shao32]

snip.

I have to disagree, if you put the jobs at level 70 just bcs you dont want to work for It you Will lock the Jobs to new players until they reach level 70 and thats much worse, the only mistake was lock heavensward jobs on ishgard without any chance to acces the city early thats all.


And DRK never was underpowered, was in fact the most balanced tank, not uderpowered like paladín and not insanely op like WAR Was, DRK dint need any important change in the entire expansión and was so much fun to play, every job need to have they own mechanics not make It easy and rewarding, let It have they own personality specially since "fun" is subjetive

[Ruinfeild]

Let's keep it going. They say they listen to fans and who knows, maybe they will look over this thread and see the suggestions.

Another thing I want to see is more dungeons or perhaps raids where you use the enviroment against the enemies (such as in keeper of the lake, the laser near the end can be used to deal damage to enemies). Give a little more strat rather than simply gathering them up and standing there.

[Sylvina]

Maybe a little bit more skill consolidation, combos being one button apiece and such. I don't have a problem with the pace of combat due to the huge amount of mechanics happening at once in savage and ex content. Upgraded char sliders would also be great.

[KisaiTenshi]

Adding a new tank and healer can work, but they need to fix the mistakes of their previous addition of new jobs:

1. Drk/Ast/Mch starting at 30 is way too low.

Wrong. The mistake was setting them at 30 at all. They should have been set to 1 and had "class upgrade to job" storylines to go with them. That could have EASILY been getting Conjurer to 30 before being able to accept the AST job. Likewise GLD for DRK and ARC to 30 for MCH. That would have been a cop-out though. We've been teased with the Musketeer class since 1.00 so that should have been the class for the Machinist job upgrade.

When Red Mage and Samurai was introduced, likewise those should have also started at level 1, as in , having the CNJ and THM at level 30 would unlock RDM. Having Rogue or Pugilist at level 30 could have unlocked Samurai at level 30.

SE did what they did so players would have the opportunity play them (by having no requirement other than storyline progress) and by not having to have HW completed (which was the complaint about the job guilds in Ishgard.) It's a travesty that players have such entitlement attitudes that they want to skip the entire game just to play something else. If I was a developer on FFXIV this is certainly something I would change, maybe even retro-fit.

Each starting city has it's jobs. So the logical fix to everything without breaking the lore too badly:
Ishgard has AST/DRK/MCH guilds. So just unlock Ishgard to players who select Elezen and AST/DRK/MCH. Players who start here get a slightly different 1-15 MSQ that sends them off to Eorzea and to report back before getting involved with the Scions.

Starting in Kugane could have a SAM guild, and players who start here instead get a 1-15 MSQ that takes place inside Kugane of Samurai apprentice training, and an entire job storyline from 30 to 50 that takes them to Eorzea. It would not supplant the existing SAM storyline, just take place before it, as pretty much every job does this at level 50 anyway.

For both Ishgard and Kugane, until the player reaches that point in the MSQ storyline, they can start there, and teleport there, but they will only be able to exit/return to Ishgard and Kugane by airship. All other HW/SB areas would be locked out, and likewise players who have not purchased HW or SB would would only be permitted to go anywhere that these cities act as a hub for. Players who don't start in Kugane or Ishgard, who enter the cities before they've unlocked them via MSQ will be rebuffed with "arrested" cut scenes that has them thrown out for having no business there.

If/when they add Geomancer, the easiest non-breaking way to add it is to require the player to have AST at 70. As that's the only time we're shown a Geomancer, and we're point blank told it's like AST. However the entire geomancer temple/dungeon is in the Yanxia area. So it would be absolutely lore-breaking to introduce a way for a Geomancer to exist that is not a lateral side-upgrade from AST or WHM. However that is also glossing over the fact that we only know the relevance of Geomancy to Kugane. A Geomancer guild could exist in Kugane, or at least a precursor class guild for level 1-30, and then at level 30 they are given the job stone from someone who stole it from the temple, and go do the same kind of 30-50 locale-centric quests that WHM and AST did in Eorzea as well as 50-60 in the Ishgard area.

Like don't get me wrong, I'd like there to be two options for trying new jobs:
a) As a new character, it needs to have a storyline starting from level 1 that is relevant to the job/area they start in. So far the way new jobs have been added has been ham-handed in that you still only start as a class, and the new jobs have no precursor class, so you can't start as them presently.
b) As a lateral job upgrade at level 30, 50, 60 or 70 provided that the player has leveled at least one tank/healer/tank and has completed the job storyline and MSQ to that point before that job is presented. This is essentially how SAM and RDM are presented now.

There is no reason to ever start another job at a level above 50. Yes, Yoshi-P may want players to try these new jobs, but by starting them at high levels, that is admitting that that SE didn't budget a story for them, thus devaluing them in the eyes of the players. Play Conjurer/White Mage or Gladiator/Paladin, get a complete storyline from level 1-70. Play Samurai or Red Mage, get a storyline for only 20 levels. Maybe they didn't have the budget for a story, or maybe they didn't have a budget to QA test a story for them. I sure hope at some point SE comes to their senses and realizes that not being able to start as, and have a full storyline for these job choices actually makes these seem like optional side-quests.

[Khalithar]

Snip

No.

/10char

[Lambdafish]

No.

/10char

Good argument, you really sold me



Regardless, you are both wrong. The way the system works right now is exactly how it should be. DRK/AST/MCH starting at 30 (with the aim of ending at 60 originally) is perfect, as is SAM/RDM starting at 50.

@Khalithar The reason that your suggestion doesn't work is because all jobs need sufficient levelling experience to teach players the job. If you reduce the levelling experience then many more players will enter endgame content unfamiliar with skills and rotations that they have aquired. The levelling process is designed as a tutorial, let it serve as one.

@KinsaiTenshi Likewise, starting every job at level 1 also doesn't work. Have you actually played a job from 1 to 30 recently? It is painful and doesn't teach you anything about the job, and is instead designed to teach the game mechanics. By the time you gain access to SAM/RDM/DRK/AST/MCH you should already have grasped the core game mechanics of combat, and the only lesson needed is the specific job playstyle, which you do not get any sense of until after level 30 at the very least.

[Paladinleeds]

Each starting city has it's jobs. So the logical fix to everything without breaking the lore too badly:
Ishgard has AST/DRK/MCH guilds. So just unlock Ishgard to players who select Elezen and AST/DRK/MCH. Players who start here get a slightly different 1-15 MSQ that sends them off to Eorzea and to report back before getting involved with the Scions.

Starting in Kugane could have a SAM guild, and players who start here instead get a 1-15 MSQ that takes place inside Kugane of Samurai apprentice training, and an entire job storyline from 30 to 50 that takes them to Eorzea. It would not supplant the existing SAM storyline, just take place before it, as pretty much every job does this at level 50 anyway.

For both Ishgard and Kugane, until the player reaches that point in the MSQ storyline, they can start there, and teleport there, but they will only be able to exit/return to Ishgard and Kugane by airship. All other HW/SB areas would be locked out, and likewise players who have not purchased HW or SB would would only be permitted to go anywhere that these cities act as a hub for. Players who don't start in Kugane or Ishgard, who enter the cities before they've unlocked them via MSQ will be rebuffed with "arrested" cut scenes that has them thrown out for having no business there.

Gonna have to disagree here. You'd then be locking SAM for example behind level 61 MSQ (and beating Sirensong) to be able to unlock the class, unless you start as one. By the same token people would be able to start as AST/DRK/MCH only if they chose Elezen. Bear in mind you can't even start as Rogue. I would say the current system beats yours. Your system would basically incentivise starting as certain classes if you want to unlock every one as quickly as possible.