Scrap classes altogether...or make jobs the master classes

[Miyaka_Vigiles]

Considering we don't know the exact specifics of the benefits/limitations that will be put in place with a job stone equip, I don't think any member of the public could give an informed opinion on whether or not classes = jobs. There is no 100% confirmation on if jobs will be restricted to purely their base class' abilities or perhaps 5, instead of 10, cross class abilities.

If this is the case then I believe classes would be incredibly redundant, but if jobs are limited to only their class' abilities then there could still be select circumstances where being a class would make you better suited than the job.

Then there is the possibility that you can use abilities from one other class, selected by SE, that is most likely required to unlock the job. The example Yoshida gave was to unlock PLD, you would need GLD 30 and MRD 15. That would mean you could use a few abilities from MRD on PLD. This could make it harder to simply eliminate classes because multiple are already tied into each job.

Anyways, before I get off topic, my point is that until we know how the class to job relationship works (in the hands-on, practical sense) we don't know if classes should stay or go.

I totally agree, alot of players discuss unconfirmed (or yet to see in-game) features wich result in flame war.

IMO, discussions should not escalate like this.

[Arcell]

The class/job system is fine. They're going to add more classes and thus more jobs, not to mention eventually multi-class jobs. Considering generally classes = weapon types and jobs = specializations, once enough classes are in the game to cover the necessary weapon types they can create innumerable jobs from any various combinations. The system is fine and actually works a bit like the Tactics line, though not exactly the same.

[Merylstryfe]

Based on the currently known information about jobs, I'm going to assume that they will primarily serve to enhance the current class system. Let's break it down by looking at CNJ and WHM:

CNJ primary role (currently):
Buff (SS, Protect), Heal, DD. This is a great solo build because it allows for survivability plus damage. In groups, CNJ can be useful mostly as a healer and buffer, but can also throw out the occasional nuke if things are going well and mp consumption isn't a problem.
WHM Role (based on known abilities):
Buff and heal, emergency DD. WHM should have access to all of the current CNJ defensive spells (nukes might be taken away, as Yoshi-P at one point said there would be some limitations when activating a class). WHM Also gains Regen, Esuna (removes weakness), Benediction (huge AoE cure), Chainspell (rapid cures, quick raises), and Holy. Holy, however, consumes all of your MP in order to deal damage, so think of it as a last ditch effort to kill a mob.

Now, WHM abilities are going to be learned from 30-50, but there are a few mysteries that we don't know for sure yet.
1. How much access to other class abilities will be available when in "job mode" - this is huge. If you cannot equip any other skills from other classes, some people may prefer to just play as a class instead of the job.
2. What abilities do you lose when in "job mode" - while I personally feel this is a lesser issue, its certainly in the realm of possibility that losing a couple key class abilities may make the job not seem as important.

Final thoughts:
In the end, it will come down to the unique situation, the make up of the party, and the player's personal play style as to how these jobs will be used by the playerbase. I think once we get out hands on them, we'll learn that certain combinations of jobs with others in a party greatly increase the efficiency of the overall group. As a CNJ, I look forward to switching to WHM when in a group to focus on healing....those nukes on the left side of my action bar tempt me too much, lol. As for eliminating the armoury system once the job system is implemented, for the reasons stated above, it simply won't work. You probably won't be able to solo a WHM to 50, thus eliminating a much sought after (financially) casual player base. Choice and flexibility is the ultimate goal of any modern MMO developer, and as long as the don't put too many restrictions on the job system, it will be an awesome complement to the armoury system.

[Fated]

I don't see the need for a distinction between solo style and a party style with the current game structure, maybe it'll become more apparent down the road. However, I definitely wouldn't miss the armory class names. I'd rather stare at "Dragoon" on the top right of my screen than "Lancer" and "Black Mage" over "Thaumaturge."

[Merylstryfe]

I don't see the need for a distinction between solo style and a party style with the current game structure, maybe it'll become more apparent down the road. However, I definitely wouldn't miss the armory class names. I'd rather stare at "Dragoon" on the top right of my screen than "Lancer" and "Black Mage" over "Thaumaturge."

I understand where you're coming from here (why not make 1 class fully versatile like the current system), but I like the idea of customizing a role on the fly to fit a given situation. As it stands, certain classes and job combinations make more sense to keep separate, while others don't have as much of a distinction. My example above is a good reason why CNJ and WHM should be separate entities, but a lancer and a dragoon may not have as much of a difference. Again, it comes back to the unknowns about what class limitations will be implemented when activating a job.

[syntaxlies]

I am sure this thread has been done to death (but I havent seen one that I can remember) but who would be in favor of SE either just scrapping the class system all together instead of giving us jobs or changing the way they describe they are handling the jobs?

The whole class + job system they describe just seems like it could possibly be more complicated than it should be and wont really add much to the game. Unless they have something really fancy lore/quest wise in store for us.

If they scrap classes I do not mean to erase our lvls, but just convert con to whm, thm to blm, gld to pld and so on. I personally wouldnt mind them doing something of the sort. I wouldn't even mind brd overtaking arc if we got rng at some point.

The only way I could see them keeping the class/job combo system as it has been so far described, is if they would make the jobs an advancment of the classes like in ff1 and instead of us equipping the new job when we feel like it, the whm would be the grown up version of con and once you capped con at 50 you do your job quests and your con was renamed whm, and we could go off on our merry way.

It could make for interesting story. Your lvl and strength in a class gets tested at a certain point and you then become a master which is accompanied by a title change.

I understand we dont know what they have in store for us yet but I personally feel this would be a better system then what has been described so far.

i said this in another thread but ioll repeat t here. For a class like glad job+class don't make sense. Glad = tank pld=tank. If they are gonna do it this way i hope they re balance classes to make them all = in DD so that when you switch to your job it actually feels like something changed.

If i can already tank fine with glad, how does that make it solo oriented when other classes out DD me by 100%. So thats my opinion.

[OranGemeo]

My current idea of the job system is this:

*You will not be able to use cross-class abilities (totally defeats the purpose of the job.) And restricted to the abilities set forth by the class and the job.
*You will gain access to more unique abilities through quests to learn more abilities that better suits the job and its role as you level.
*Class Rank and Job Level are the same. If you're a 50 LNC, you're also a 50 DRG.
*Classes will still be usable in situations and jobs won't totally make them obsolete. (Melee won't be able to raise unless on a job)

Some things I am not 100% about is the prerequisite jobs. It HAS been mentioned that Paladin is made from a level 30 Gladiator and a level 15 MRD. Perhaps, this means that Paladin will use abilities from MRD and GLA.

I also am not sure if the new jobs will require completely different weapons. I'm quite sure they do. I do not see a Bard having access to Ifrit's Bow, as it needs a bow harp. And I don't see MNK having access to Ifrit's Claws as it requires some different type of fists (Dragon theme, animal theme, etc). I could be wrong tho^^

[syntaxlies]

My current idea of the job system is this:

*You will not be able to use cross-class abilities (totally defeats the purpose of the job.) And restricted to the abilities set forth by the class and the job.
*You will gain access to more unique abilities through quests to learn more abilities that better suits the job and its role as you level.
*Class Rank and Job Level are the same. If you're a 50 LNC, you're also a 50 DRG.
*Classes will still be usable in situations and jobs won't totally make them obsolete. (Melee won't be able to raise unless on a job)

Some things I am not 100% about is the prerequisite jobs. It HAS been mentioned that Paladin is made from a level 30 Gladiator and a level 15 MRD. Perhaps, this means that Paladin will use abilities from MRD and GLA.

I also am not sure if the new jobs will require completely different weapons. I'm quite sure they do. I do not see a Bard having access to Ifrit's Bow, as it needs a bow harp. And I don't see MNK having access to Ifrit's Claws as it requires some different type of fists (Dragon theme, animal theme, etc). I could be wrong tho^^

pld is supposed to be war an glad according to the dev example. i think it should be glad and cnj.

[Mortikhan]

I agree with Coglin on the fact that most classes will more than likely have multiple facets (jobs) that are just focused role players in a party environment. Classes will be what you level with for generic parties. Jobs will be something that you sit down as a party and decide who is doing what and put on that mantle to hit the field with for major events where more focused roles will be needed.

My concern is, are they even going to bother expanding on the jobs after they are introduced or are they just going to make up more and more jobs while introducing more classes to attach more jobs to.

[Velhart]

The thing is, people don't look at how the Job system is going to expand in the future. These classes in the future will have multiple jobs and will work for a given event.

Only an example here but lets say you are a Gladiator. Sometimes you are a tank for the party, sometimes you are a DPS. You also focused mainly on that one class. Depending on the situation, you can go on Paladin, to focus on tanking, or switch to Dark Knight, to make you a better DPS.

I feel some here are not being open minded about this system. It adds a lot of flexibility on party play the way it is set up. For right now, we just have to deal with the "Only 1 job per class." setup until SE is able to offer us a better variety. At the same time, Class is not being out dated. I am sure that I wouldn't want to go Paladin on solo'ing a tough mob. I need abilities from other classes that the job cannot provide.

Don't have to agree with me, but I believe this is a legit system.