Squishy tanks... is it me or them?

[itsokimbatman]

I'm a newly minted level 70 WHM, with a level 60 SCH and level 31 AST. I like my healers. I think I'm okay at playing WHM. But one thing I've noticed lately is I don't see a lot of middle ground with tanks. Either they're fine and I can throw a regen on them then holy spam to my hearts content, or they get half their health knocked off before my current cast completes, and I struggle to keep them up.

I am leveling DRK, but I'm pretty ignorant about tanking, and I'm not sure if I'm dealing with bad tanks or if it's me that's bad.

Any ideas on how I can better manage situations like this? I feel like it's my responsibility to keep the party alive, so I'm open to anything.

[Yhual]

It's great that you're leveling a tank too. Def helps to see what you can do better when you play both sides.

A good idea would be to learn the tank cool down icons (buffs to circumvent damage) and watch their buffs in a dungeon to see if they're using them. Some tanks ignore them completely or save them for bosses only, which a lot of cooldowns get more use in in trash packs.

Another good idea is to check their gear. Just right click and examine them and do a quick glance. If they're using cooldowns properly/gear is up to date, it's also possible their gear is broken (don't think it shows up for anyone but them tho).

[EaMett]

There are basically a few types of tanks:
- Those who understand that maxing packs comes from freeing healer dps uptime. They'll dps as much as they can while using defensive skills (cooldowns on trash, stunning some hard hitting mobs, trade some dps to use rotations that regen hp, etc..). Some take this too far an heal themselves, looking at you paladins (and some red mages). These same tanks usually do bosses in dps stance and switch the burden back onto you.
- Those who just try to dps through everything. Will use defensive cooldowns but that's about it.
- All the others, from clueless people to those who would rather keep their CDs for "oh shit" moments.

You'll get a feel for which is which pretty quickly. From there it depends a lot on classes as well.

PLD can take quite a beating even under-geared if they use their cooldowns and stuns properly. If they use HG on cooldown on trash packs you're golden, take good care of them on bosses.
WAR and DRK will make great use of DB and stuns (holy) to regen their HP.
And probably more I'm forgetting.

[Tinibou]

I've been a DPS since v1 of the game. I'm mostly PLD now but it's pretty recent. So I'm not the best tank, I think I'm average. But I'm playing the tank role to play it like a tank, not to play like a DPS. I keep my aggro and all. I'm not here to do damage. I sometimes do on some occasions. I remember for example when I was leveling in The Vault, the final boss has a phase with flames. So here I knew I couldnt take damage so I was switching DPS stance to help and when the last flame was dead, I switched back to the DEF stance. But if I know I will not be at ease with the switch in a given situation, I wont do it.

I'm a PLD for info and that's right that when I was leveling and sometimes under-geared, it could be hard for my healer friend to keep me up even though I was using my cooldowns and all.

[Jaybiz650]

snip

It sounds to me like you have the right attitude and mindset about healing so I'm thinking that you aren't the issue at all. I main as AST but decided to level PLD for the experience and seeing things from that perspective has been invaluable. You really need to learn how to effectively manage your skills as a tank in order to be successful and I also feel like some people may feel pressured to DPS as a tank. DPS stance makes for a squishy tank.

[Risvertasashi]

Either they're fine and I can throw a regen on them then holy spam to my hearts content, or they get half their health knocked off before my current cast completes, and I struggle to keep them up.

Usual first thing I say in these kind of situations is check gear -- both your own, and your tanks. But if you're encountering the former situation, my first thought is the problem isn't you. This can particularly be a problem levelling SCH, since it doesn't have a cure 2/benefic 2 it can just sit there and spam.

Anyways, it's probably gear (pre 50 tanks can even wear DPS gear), perhaps combined with an uncaring attitude towards CDs. If you want to examine more carefully the reasons behind deaths, you can upload logs to FFlogs, and examine the healing and incoming damage leading up to a death. What CDs were used, if any, etc. Although I believe they only support max level dungeons.

[Gemina]

Keep playing your DRK and you will get more insight into what's going on with tanks while they're tanking. I bring this up first and foremost so you can eliminate any doubt on your part if you are the problem, as you will be able to gauge how much experience your tank has tanking. There is also no shame in telling your tank to ease up a bit if they are taking too much damage. If they decide to be jerks about it, you can leave any group that makes you uncomfortable.

There can be a lot of reasons for a tank being squishy. Bad/broken gear, over-confident and tries to take on large pulls out of tank stance, has no idea mitigative CDs exist or doesn't know how to rotate them properly, stands in AoE. The list goes on. What it always comes down to is they are simply taking on more than they should, which might even be the dungeon he/she is in with you. If the tank's HP drops too quickly, and the mobs are dying slowly, the pull is too strong for your group.

The issue is you keep getting inexperienced tanks, and likely a mix of low DPS due to under-geared DPS players and also no DPS contributions on your part because of the need for constant healing. An experienced tank will gauge the strength of the party. Some are more careful and will do a small pull first. Others are reckless and will pull everything at the start and simply see how everyone does and adjust accordingly. This tank usually checks everyone's gear prior to doing so, so he's not totally reckless

As you say, sometimes we get the ones who can pull huge while giving us ample windows to DPS, others require much more intensive healing on our part. I do sympathize with you, but it is also something that us healers have to adjust to. It is a lot of fun to weave in DPS skills, but we're healers first. Always.

[Driskus]

A lot of it definitely depends on the healer & tank's gear, and how well the tank is using cooldowns, and knowing when to switch back to tank stance. If one or the other is undergeared enough, it can be hard to keep the tank alive, even on single-pack pulls. Many of the tanks I see will stay in DPS stance even when things start going downhill, which makes matters worse.

I make it a habit to check gear on the other party members at the start of a dungeon. If I see an undergeared tank I'll usually save stuff like Presence of Mind for the inevitable Cure II spam, otherwise I'll try and push DPS as much as possible, especially if there's an undergeared DPS or two that would cause the tank to run out of cooldowns.

On the tank side, while leveling PLD through Heavensward dungeons, I could always tell when I was even slightly undergeared, because the damage ramped up enough to notice it. During SB dungeons I was mostly using gear from the dungeon I was in once I hit Bardam's. I had most of it already from runs while on WHM. I find I have to switch back to Shield Oath and use Clemency more frequently in SB where in HW the damage going out was fairly low even in Sword Oath as long as I was properly geared (with The Vault being the single exception, that place sucks). I do try to put out decent DPS when I can though I'm not the type to do trash packs in DPS stance, unless its a single mob that I know isn't going to cause problems.

[Ekimmak]

I feel like it doesn't help that there's a buff cap on the party list of ... what is it, four? and that's almost always taken up by protect. Then you've got maybe adlo, medica II... blocks you from seeing the tank's de/buffs, which are an important gauge of how much damage you can expect.

[TalithaSolarien]

I feel like it doesn't help that there's a buff cap on the party list of ... what is it, four? and that's almost always taken up by protect. Then you've got maybe adlo, medica II... blocks you from seeing the tank's de/buffs, which are an important gauge of how much damage you can expect.

If you have the tank selected then you should be able to see buffs/debuffs he has on himself. But yes, the limit on the party list makes it hard to spot them there.