Warrior of Light Twisted and Warped?

[gumas]

iam not surprised if in the future expansion (or maybe this next expansion) we will fighting "ourself" in some way, the scene in HW after you defeat knight of the round is probably the most striking for me (the "what are you" scene)

because at that point it could be a great plot twist if we found out later that our WOL is actually something like a primal too, not because of the crystal hydaelyn thingy but because even before that we are actually something else, we never have any glimpse of past about our char (despite we can just saw someone else past so easily but not our own) and the way our WOL sudden abrupt start from a carriage.

[Yuyuka3]

snip

Basically all MMO protagonists are like that, though. Imagine the defs spelling the character's backstory out for everyone... people already hate how linear the story is right now with little ability to choose even dialogue options (that then don't influence you or the story in any way), now imagine what would have happened had they just taken that out of the player's hands as well.

Sure, would be cool if the WoL was something more than meets the eye, but that primal idea specifically is nonsense in my eyes. It would be a dead end, seeing how primals acted so far. We would literally have to kill ourselves, and that won't happen for a whole lot of reasons. Besides, everyone sees us as mortals, Middy and all actual primals refer to us as such, there is no real evidence that we are in any way special outside our immense powers (that most likely stem from us using our crystals as a power source, I think, and that the Echo makes it easy for us to learn new things very quickly).

I also wouldn't interpret too much into that scene you mentioned. I think it was about a man seeing his believes crushed by you and his vision getting distorted by death and the mental influence turning primal likely had on him. It definitely is interesting, but, really. Doesn't have to mean anything.

[Enkidoh]

It's pretty rich that Gilgamesh of all people tries to evoke 'being good sucks' as a means of getting under your skin, given he himself is a villain that has been backstabed, betrayed, cast into the Void on so many occasions he now has an affinity to it (to the point the Void keeps pulling him back into it!).

However, having said that, Hydaelyn is a pretty awful place to live, what with civilization being essentially cyclic between a period of growth only to have the whole thing torn down and reset again, that mere strong will and emotion births false gods that will completely brainwash you into becoming their zealous slavish follower unless you happen to have an unreliable and altogether frightening psychic ability that is randomly gifted by the planet's consciousness (itself symbolized by a giant sentient crystal), that a gang of black-robed and masked immortal hoodlums have been stirring up said false gods and strife since pretty much the beginning, all in the name of their vague dark god. So I think its only natural our character will gradually start to become world-weary and cynical about things.

Regardless though, just because the world sucks doesn't mean we have to make it worse. Our powers make it that despite all the heartbreak and suffering that occurs, we continue to come out on top, and Hydaelyn itself grows stronger for it. 'What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger' and all.

And remember, this is kind of part-and-parcel of being an adventurer in the first place. Early on it's spelled out to you in no uncertain terms being an adventurer is not a roadside picnic where fame and fortune just flows in with little effort. Sure, you can get unimaginable wealth, become known the world over, see the most extraordinary places in the world that few have ever seen before. But, there is a price that must be paid. And repeatedly it's shown countless wannabe adventurers simply are either unwilling or incapable of meeting that price. It just happens we happen to have accepted it and paid it.

Because that in itself is the heart of good drama: that everything comes at a cost, and how willing the protagonists are to pay it.

[Dualblade]

Well when most of the WoL you meet are only during a battle, sometimes after you try and make off with an apparently legendary sword they were just about to gain it isn't surprising he wouldn't see the more cheerful side to them. Plus he seems to like the XIV WoL well enough and thats before getting into Bartz and co.

Also Gilgamesh doesn't make for a very good father figure.

[Dualblade]

Maybe his talking about Cloud is hinting at him appearing in the PS4 version when it comes out.

[Enkidoh]

It's still a cop-out though - the very term 'Warrior of Light' was only really associated with the early NES-era games and had all but disappeared from use by FFVI (and even then FFII did not use it at all, neither did FFIV from what I remember - even FFXI, a game mentioned by it's former producer as being "everything we wanted to do with FFIII originally but couldn't due to the technical limitations of the time", did not feature the term - it used the term 'Crystal Warriors' instead, but even that was not used for the player's character and ended up referring to something completely different).

Only since FFXIV has the 'Warriors of Light' term come back into use, mostly due to SE returning to it's roots and featuring a lot of callbacks and references to it's history in their most recent FF titles, FFXIV included.

So yeah, once again I'm not going to take Gilgamesh's ramblings in a spin-off title as reflective of events in the main series, especially not FFXIV.

[EdwinLi]

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If that is what you believe then go for it.

Gilgamesh follows his own Canon in the FF series anyways due to his link to the void and it is very difficult to keep track of his timeline since SE refuse to provide a flow chart of Gilgamesh's life in FF series. Not to mention the clues Gilgamesh provides is very small to put together a proper timeline itself.

He still remembers the events of Dissidia as well which is where he met certain Warriors of Light and Warriors of Darkness. As for how he could have been in each FF world, it is most likely he kept his distance and the encounters we have with Gilgamesh in certin FF games are mostly only when he determined they are ready for a fight. If not he mostly seem to just stay in the distance out of view and watch how their story unfold.

For me it seems Mobius events for Gilgamesh is Canon to his lore as it does fit into what is known about Gilgamesh's life through the FF series and how messy the Void is with following a separate law of reality to the point it defies any understanding of time and space. If anything Mobius events is most likely Gilgamesh's off time place when he is not exploring a different FF world.

The only thing certain about Gilgamesh timeline is that FFVIII self is his oldest version that has already obtained Excalibur and we yet to reach the point in Gilgamesh's timeline where we discover how he became his FFVIII self since every encounter after and before FFVIII has been his Pre-Excalibur self.

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Gilgamesh does remember the events of Dissidia as well so could have Cloud direct through Dissidia battles even if it is not in FF7 world.

Also, from what he said he has been watching each FF world from the distance and only appears infront of them once he determines they are worthy of a fight. Due to this it is most likely Gilgamesh has been to all FF worlds but we don't meet him in some because he been keeping his distance.

Heck, Gilgamesh even has no interests in taking Mobius WoL weapons until he has proven himself worth of Warrior of Light title and only gets invovled in these events to train Mobius WoL into becoming a Warrior of Light or just for some fun since he has nothing better to do.

Maybe his talking about Cloud is hinting at him appearing in the PS4 version when it comes out.

That is a possible outcome since the Void follows a different law of reality that creates a separate flow of time so most likely Gilgamesh has met all FF characters at some point already even if we have not seen that event yet since time in the void flows completely differently from what we know when it comes to time.

It is because of this why Gilgamesh made appearances in FF1 remake and event FFIV After Years.

[Cilia]

... but the characters in Dissidia are recognized as Warriors of Cosmos / Chaos (and perhaps Spiritus / Materia in NT; I haven't picked that one up and have no intention of doing so), not Warriors of Light / Darkness. So Gilgamesh recognizing Cloud as a Warrior of Light... doesn't make sense from a meta perspective... perhaps within Mobius' own canon, but otherwise it's inconsistent.

I would again posit that it's meant to be words of encouragement toward the player rather than commentary on the franchise's protagonists and leave it at that. This is also a fairly common thing in mobage, such as one of Lyon's castle quotes in FEH:

You work so hard, but I want you to know that—if you need to—it's OK to cry. Nobody here knows what you've been through but you.

[Okamimaru]

I was working on the theory that Siegfried from ff6 was Greg in disguise until Siegfried showed up in deltascapes phantom train