RDM First Impressions (and perhaps advice) Thread

[Maeka]

Okay so I know I am REALLY late with this...


But I finally got off my duff and finally unlocked RDM. I've been tempted to now and then, I've seen RDMs in groups and they seem to do well, and I've read a little about them but never actually sat down to play the job myself.

Well I did that earlier today.

And I might say, that RDM is probably the best designed DPS job I've ever played thusfar? Just the design philosophy behind this job seems miles better than everything else.

It's got variety -- you cast spells, you melee, you have a few movement abilities (I've seen people hurling themselves off of cliffs with it though lol), you even get some measure of self-heal (probably the only DPS that does), and even an emergency Raise.

But what gets me, is the randomness of the job. Verfire and Verstone are very random, but yet it's not really a punishing sort of random, or at least it doesn't look like it? Most of the time when you introduce RNG into the mix, having too much of it, or too little of it, will impact your performance.

But not so, with Verfire and Verstone. The presence (or absence) of it will change your spellcasts so that you're not hitting the same tired combos over and over again, but yet if you don't see a Verfire or Verstone (or even see the "wrong" one), you can work around it. It doesn't feel too punishing, and it makes you think about what you're casting next (whatever you need).

Now maybe this changes later in levels, but for now, it seems like THE DPS job to be if you want something that's not over-complicated, but yet nice and varied with a decent amount of randomness to it.

I think I'm finally starting to get the hang of the basics (that whole use Jolt to get Dualcast thing took me awhile before the lightbulb went off in my head lol), now I just need to build muscle memory. I think I have a rather decent hotkey setup...

1 - Jolt
2 - Veraero (Shift+2 = Verstone)
3 - Verothunder (Shift+3 = Verfire)
4 - Corps-a-Corps
5 - Riposte
6 - Chant Du..... errr, that Z-whatever skill.
7 - Redouble
8 - That jump back skill

The idea is that Jolt is used often so it goes on #1... both Ver-White spells are 2 because the white gauge is on the left, both Ver-Black are on 3 because the black gauge is on the right, jump in with 4, 5+6+7 for the combo, jump back with 8.

Simplicity.

Now I just gotta train my hands to do it. lol.

[Tex_Mex]

IMO, RDM is the easiest DPS in the game by a long shot. The very simple priority system and non-punishing mechanics make it very easy for newer players to pick up and do well with. There is one downside though. RDM is pretty terrible at end game. Their DPS is miles behind the other two casters and their party utility is only situationally good. The ability to quick raise is really only useful for progression raiding, but once players figure out the mechanics, very few players die any more so that utility becomes pretty lackluster.

I do agree that the class is a blast to play though! Hopefully they will get some buffs in 4.4 or beyond to make them more competitive.

[Wayfinder3]

So Couple things though NONE OF THIS SHOULD MAKE YOU HATE THE JOB OR DISLIKE IT IN ANYWAY
im a rdm/ast main to the core and love them both
1. RDM is not the best designed job as of now though it's up there, BRD and arguably AST are far better design in their current iteration.
(These 2 jobs are very similar in design philosophy to rdm. high utility and low dps. they just do it better than rdm)
2. RDM's variety is purely cosmetic. T/A and F/S do the exact same thing they just look different.
3. RNG does effect rdm's dps a fair amount, not getting Fire and Stone procs is just a flat 30 potency loss
4. Heal while a nice utility is generally uselss at all levels of play except for Potd and Eureka
5. Raise is great but quickly becomes an MP sink when used in succession since you have to pay 360 or 600 mana in addition to the standard 3600 for raise making rdm's raise the most costly

Im only saying this is because, rdm ends up being this oasis though many players go in expecting something interesting when it's pretty shallow. some even end up leaving the job as a result so i decided to let you know everything. This may sound overly negative however rdm is very progression friendly and thats kinda it's only good thing.

Generally you don't want to use Jolt
Fire and Stone are your highest priority cast
F/S > Impact > Jolt > Cure if the boss cannot be hit.
Once you cap your level, you want to keep the gauges imbalanced so that you get a 100% proc from the Holy or Flare after your melee combo
YOU ARE NOT A MELEE DPS, some people seem to think rdm is 50%/50% Cast and Melee However, it's more like 95%/5% in favor of casting. don't stay in melee range but don't stay far in the corner as you miss heals and buffs. it's not a terrible idea to use corp a corp after displacement since you don't always need it to start a melee combo. when you need to use a 15 yalm jump back as a part of your dps rotation, you'll learn that missing heals will happen alot
rdm isn't very great with buff alignment because rng also kinda pushes your melee combo back causing you to miss Trick attack windows where raid buffs go wild.
your OGCDs Fleche, Contre Sixe, CaC, and Displacement are all physical based abilites and beenfit from piercing debuff.
Embolden works on your MAGIC damage (not your ogcds) and your parties PHYSICAL damage. so this buff is best used on cd with other 120/60 sec buffs
Sprint, and potion remove dualcast

Thats pretty much it. If you want a rotation, there is the balance discord so go nab one there to really visualize the flow of the job

[Rongway]

But what gets me, is the randomness of the job. Verfire and Verstone are very random, but yet it's not really a punishing sort of random, or at least it doesn't look like it? Most of the time when you introduce RNG into the mix, having too much of it, or too little of it, will impact your performance.

By 70, Verfire and Verstone are actually not that random. Between Acceleration and Verflare/Verholy, you get the procs more often than not.

But not so, with Verfire and Verstone. The presence (or absence) of it will change your spellcasts so that you're not hitting the same tired combos over and over again, but yet if you don't see a Verfire or Verstone (or even see the "wrong" one), you can work around it. It doesn't feel too punishing, and it makes you think about what you're casting next (whatever you need).

Much of the optimization of RDM involves deciding when casting the "wrong" spell is actually the better choice. You'll see more of this once you get Verflare and Verholy, and it will involve not just those spells but also making judgments about which Verfastspell-Verslowspell combinations to use leading up to a melee combo.

I think I'm finally starting to get the hang of the basics (that whole use Jolt to get Dualcast thing took me awhile before the lightbulb went off in my head lol), now I just need to build muscle memory. I think I have a rather decent hotkey setup...

1 - Jolt
2 - Veraero (Shift+2 = Verstone)
3 - Verothunder (Shift+3 = Verfire)
4 - Corps-a-Corps
5 - Riposte
6 - Chant Du..... errr, that Z-whatever skill.
7 - Redouble
8 - That jump back skill

The idea is that Jolt is used often so it goes on #1... both Ver-White spells are 2 because the white gauge is on the left, both Ver-Black are on 3 because the black gauge is on the right, jump in with 4, 5+6+7 for the combo, jump back with 8.

Do you have a third row? If so, save space for Verholy and Verflare above the corresponding Verslowspells and Verfastspells. Also save space for Impact at shift+Jolt.

I don't think I'd necessarily assign jolt to 1 just because it "is used often". I'm not saying it's a bad place for it, just the reasoning gets thrown out the window later. You actually want to do everything possible to avoid casting Jolt! This includes

1) Precasting a Verslowspell if there is time before the pull. Start casting at 5s on the countdown, if available.

2) Using Swiftcast-Verslowspell when you have no Verfastspells ready. A single 300 potency GCD is better than 180+300 over two GCDs (later 240+300).

3) Using Impact if it's about to expire, even if you have Verfastspells ready. If it falls off and you get no procs from Verfastspell-Verslowspell, you're left with Jolt. If you use Impact, you have a chance to get another proc or refresh an existing proc -- in either case, you'll do more damage than with Jolt.

YOU ARE NOT A MELEE DPS, some people seem to think rdm is 50%/50% Cast and Melee However, it's more like 95%/5% in favor of casting. don't stay in melee range but don't stay far in the corner as you miss heals and buffs.

I must respectfully disagree here. Max melee range is often the best place for a RDM. It allows you to use your movement abilities independently of anything in your rotation, and is especially important if the boss has absurdly large cone attacks that will be impossible to dodge at range.

Being in melee range puts you in a better position to handle most mechanics, and PBAoEs are not a heavy burden on RDM given its high level of mobility.

[Maeka]

I do indeed have a third row, and I already put the Holy/Flare up there, lol.

I didn't see Impact, oddly. I went through and assigned most of the action buttons, but I musta missed that one. I'll have to pull the actions menu up again and go find it.

As to the rest of the stuff, well, that's higher level stuff. I'm only 51 now, so... yeah. For the meantime, it's rather fun.

[Remyogic]

YOU ARE NOT A MELEE DPS, some people seem to think rdm is 50%/50% Cast and Melee However, it's more like 95%/5% in favor of casting. don't stay in melee range but don't stay far in the corner as you miss heals and buffs. it's not a terrible idea to use corp a corp after displacement since you don't always need it to start a melee combo. when you need to use a 15 yalm jump back as a part of your dps rotation, you'll learn that missing heals will happen alot

I disagree with this statement as well, for two reasons:

1) RDM's movement abilities also do damage on the oGCD, and thus, it is a straight DPS loss not to use them every time they come up. To accomplish this, you should run into melee range during your opener, then as part of your DPS rotation, pop Displacement immediately followed by Corps-a-Corps during the GCD of one of your Dualcast'd spells. (OBVIOUSLY, don't use displacement if it is going to toss you off a cliff, though). The only time you should be saving CaC or Displacement is if you are near a particular point in the fight where they are more useful to save; like displacing out of a point blank AOE or Corps-A-Corps back to the boss after a separation mechanic.

2) RDM wants to be able to execute it's Melee burst combo as many times as possible during a fight, which is clunky if you are out of melee range when your mana hits 80+/80+. The total time you waste running back into melee is a horrible DPS loss. The only way you could achieve this goal while staying at range is if you always save CaC to close on the boss; which is still a DPS loss as explained in point 1.

Basically, as RDM you should be in melee range ANYTIME mechanics allow it.

[Pyitoechito]

3) Using Impact if it's about to expire, even if you have Verfastspells ready. If it falls off and you get no procs from Verfastspell-Verslowspell, you're left with Jolt. If you use Impact, you have a chance to get another proc or refresh an existing proc -- in either case, you'll do more damage than with Jolt.

I never considered this. I assume you obviously wouldn't want to do this if you have both procs, or your one proc would expire first (or before you could use it). Would this take priority over Swiftcast if it's available (since the Swiftcast is another proc chance)? e.g., Impact > Slowcast > Proc > Slowcast vs Proc > Slowcast (no proc) > Swiftcast > Slowcast.

[Shiroe]

The ONLY pull back Rdm has in Pfs, is that its personal dps is low.

Otherwise Rdm is full of positiv aspects.., and aside of maybe getting in speed kills / speed farming PFs, Rdm are still desirable as a caster or dps in most PFs and in general content.

[Maeka]

Well, I'm not concerned about the PF because I wouldn't be using RDM for that anyways. I mainly wanted a DPS that I could bring to FC/Linkshell stuff when people want 8man runs or something but the heals and tanks are already filled.

That, and I wanted a good DPS for solo questing too, preferably one that can self-heal (like RDM can, and it seems to be the one and only one that can at that), and also Eureka when I want to do something like a challenge log or something (takes stinking forever to kill anything as PLD).

I have zero intention of doing Ex Primals, Savage Raids, etc.

[Rongway]

3) Using Impact if it's about to expire, even if you have Verfastspells ready.

I never considered this. I assume you obviously wouldn't want to do this if you have both procs.

Your instinct is understandable, and yet the optimal choice is actually to use Impact anyway.

Say you have 10s left on Impact, and you have both Verfastspells Ready.
You use Verstone-Veraero (570) and do not get a proc.
Then you use Verfire-Verthunder (570) and do not get a proc.
There's now <1s left on Impact, so you can't cast it. You're left with JoltII-Verslowspell (540).

Total potency 1,680, and the last spell had a 50% chance to proc.

Back to the beginning.
You use Impact-Verslowspell (570) instead. No proc, but it doesn't matter.
Verstone-Veraro (570), no proc.
Verfire-Verthunder (570).

Total potency 1,710, and the last spell had a 50% chance to proc.

This is just the (no,no) proc outcome of course. All outcome combinations:

Starting state:
Verstone Ready, Verfire Ready [VSR/VFR]



(no, no)
==========
Verstone-Veraero: 570 potency, 20 mana, dud [---/VFR]
Verfire-Verslowspell: 570 potency, 20 mana, dud [---/---]
JoltII-Verslowspell: 540 potency, 17 mana, 50% [VXR/---] 50% [---/---]
Total: 1,680 potency, 57 mana, 50% chance for 1 proc

Impact-Veraero: 570 potency, 19 mana, dud [VSR/VFR]
Verstone-Veraero: 570 potency, 20 mana, dud [---/VFR]
Verfire-Verslowspell: 570 potency, 20 mana, 50% [VXR/---] 50% [---/---]
Total: 1,710 potency, 59 mana, 50% chance for 1 proc

Impact better by 30 potency, 2 mana



(no, yes)
==========
Verstone-Veraero: 570 potency, 20 mana, dud [---/VFR]
Verfire-Verslowspell: 570 potency, 20 mana, proc [VXR/---]
Verfastspell-Verslowspell: 570 potency, 20 mana, 50% [VXR/---] 50% [---/---]
Total: 1,710 potency, 60 mana, 50% chance for 1 proc

Impact-Verslowspell: 570 potency, 19 mana, dud [VSR/VFR]
Verfastspell-Verslowspell: 570 potency, 20 mana, proc [VSR/VFR]
Verfastspell-Verslowspell: 570 potency, 20 mana, 50% [VSR/VFR] 50% [VXR/---]
Total: 1,710 potency, 59 mana, guaranteed 1 proc, 50% chance for 2 procs

Impact generates 1 less mana, but guarantees an extra proc



(yes, no)
==========
Verfastspell-Verslowspell: 570 potency, 20 mana, proc [VSR/VFR]
Verfastspell-Verslowspell: 570 potency, 20 mana, dud [VXR/---]
Verfastspell-Verslowspell: 570 potency, 20 mana, 50% [VXR/---] 50% [---/---]
Total: 1,710 potency, 60 mana, 50% chance for 1 proc

Impact-Verslowspell: 570 potency, 19 mana, proc [VSR/VFR]
Verfastspell-Verslowspell: 570 potency, 20 mana, dud [VXR/---]
Verfastspell-Verslowspell: 570 potency, 20 mana, 50% [VXR/---] 50% [---/---]
Total: 1,710 potency, 59 mana, 50% chance for 1 proc

Impact generates 1 less mana



(yes, yes)
==========
Verfastspell-Verslowspell: 570 potency, 20 mana, proc [VSR/VFR]
Verfastspell-Verslowspell: 570 potency, 20 mana, proc [VSR/VFR]
Verfastspell-Verslowspell: 570 potency, 20 mana, 50% [VSR/VFR] 50% [VXR/---]
Total: 1,710 potency, 60 mana, guaranteed 1 proc, 50% chance for 2 procs

Impact-Verslowspell: 570 potency, 19 mana, proc [VSR/VFR]
Verfastspell-Verslowspell: 570 potency, 20 mana, proc [VSR/VFR]
Verfastspell-Verslowspell: 570 potency, 20 mana, 50% [VSR/VFR] 50% [VXR/---]
Total: 1,710 potency, 59 mana, guaranteed 1 proc, 50% chance for 2 procs

Impact generates 1 less mana

Summary:
The Impact scenario will deal the same potency 75% of the time, and will be more potent 25% of the time.
The Impact scenario will end with the same procs 75% of the time, and will generate one extra proc 25% of the time.
These two 25% events are mutually exclusive. There's a 50% chance Impact will result in the same potency and procs, a 25% chance Impact will deal 30 more potency, and 25% chance Impact will generate an extra proc.

So if Impactful is at <8s remaining, it's best to use it. If you use it, the worst that will happen is you'll generate 1 less Mana. But you have a 50% chance to do more damage or gain an extra proc.

Would this take priority over Swiftcast if it's available (since the Swiftcast is another proc chance)? e.g., Impact > Slowcast > Proc > Slowcast vs Proc > Slowcast (no proc) > Swiftcast > Slowcast.

Yes, Swiftcast is for avoiding having to use Jolt, or for fitting in one last spell before the boss jumps. Avoid using it when you have a 270 option available.