DPS who do 4k worth of damage = garbage tier

[Jellybums]

Lets be honest - this thread hasn't been about Kaiva's original post for quite some time. People brought up the subject of optimization in relation to relative damage output and The Balance is a great resource to get started on optimizing your play.

If you want to ignore that entire aspect of gameplay go right ahead but don't expect people who do put in that effort to cater to you or not talk about their interests when the conversation suits it.

You're 100% wrong- Kaiva is in no way responsible for your actions.

Just commenting on the bad ad placement. You wouldn't advertise your brand on a racist YouTuber's channel unless you're fine with the association. So you advertise in a thread that slick promotes elitism. A lot of backpedaling here, too, and the if you're not with us then you just wanna play bad. This is a thread I hope no returner or newbie ever sees. They shouldn't feel bad about being behind but be optimistic about bettering themselves.

[HyoMinPark]

The comment wasn't directed at anyone and could have meant anything. What you choose to read into it doesn't warrant that sort of response.

No, it isn't. But that isn't what happened.

I’m sorry, but I was perfectly civil in my response to that poster. They were the one who started responding with passive-aggressive comments and continued to be vague about their very negative first post in this thread after I repeatedly requested clarification if they somehow held a different opinion. I suggest you go back and read the entire interaction, because you seemed to have missed several things—I only got abrasive when they continued to respond rudely to me and accused me of being the rude one here.

I’m sorry, but I don’t think it’s right to defend vagueness or passive-aggressiveness, and call the other party the griefers here. Now, considering that part of the conversation had been dropped (before you decided to bring it back up), kindly let it stay where it lay, and don’t cause more problems.

This is a thread I hope no returner or newbie ever sees. They shouldn't feel bad about being behind but be optimistic about bettering themselves.

There have been plenty of posters in this thread advocating for improvement, and even saying that low damage is dependant on several different factors—that one needs to consider them all before they make any sort of solid judgement. I can say with absolute certainty than none of my posts I have made in here have been, in any way, intended to make new players feel bad about themselves, whether they are behind or starting out. The only players I disagree with are those that want others to do all the work for them, and put in nothing on their part.

[Lunaxia]

Makes sense that you would defend someone employing the "vague rudeness" strategy.

Birds of a feather...

Makes sense you'd bring up a baseless remark over previous disputes because you have nothing else to offer.

Birds of a feather indeed!

[Nariel]

Bard is a special case, it's 100% impossible to get accurate numbers when bard is so proc dependent, between piercing resistance debuff and crit buffs from drg/sch your DPS can change drastically.

Yeah add the DRG eye link to those and the parse is not the same... Especially when your team-mate align those buff to the right moment and you transform an average burst time to an ass-ripping arrow shower.

A BRD team up with RNGesus for a living and depend heavily on his team for good damage input.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Makes sense you'd bring up a baseless remark over previous disputes because you have nothing else to offer.

Birds of a feather indeed!

Using past history to establish consistency is normal. You spent an entire thread claiming a potential epidemic yet when challenged to provide actual evidence, you balked. Sort of like the person you're now white knighting who came into a thread, made a condescending remark and whined abuse when people wanted an elaboration in lieu of vague remarks. Coincidentally, Mageblack had no such issues offering their opinion when asked. And despite mutual disagreement, the conversation remained civil—almost like elaborating when asked is a good idea so people don't assume your stance.

But you are one to enjoy assumptions, love.

[MoroMurasaki]

Makes sense you'd bring up a baseless remark over previous disputes because you have nothing else to offer.

Birds of a feather indeed!

Um, honey... you brought it up in your initial post whining about how Issac was 'griefed' out of the thread xD I just responded to you.

Do you want a mirror? My discord is in my signature, I can have one to you in 2 days with Amazon prime.

You know, so you can look in it and stop projecting.

[HyoMinPark]

I went back tonight and did some more Tsukuyomi SSS dummy and had the following numbers. I gave each job a few attempts. I cleared the challenge on several jobs.

Bard 361 4400-4550 I am just beating the dummy so I "qualify" lol.
RDM 352 4900-5200
DRG 361 4900

I still do not know why the bard numbers are where they are. I can honestly say I have pulled off the opener consistently well and clip nothing, get in my ogcds, and maintain my dots and song transitions. I meld into crit-dh with grade 6 materia.

Point is, not all of us are lazy or doing an ice mage rotation, we are trying real hard!

BRD is a very tricky job to get consistent damage out of, because the job itself is so RNG/proc-based, and so dependant on things like piercing resistance down and critical hit enhancing buffs like Battle Litany and Chain Strategem—you can have a godly opener one pull with 2~3 3-stack Pitch Perfects and a Barrage+Refulgent, and then your next opener is a dinky one with 1 3-stack PP and you have to Barrage+Empyreal Arrow like we’re back in Heavensward.

BRD fluctuates with every pull, and it is one of the hardest DPS to optimize, and consistent damage is never really a thing with it because of its high variance. As long as you continue to try, you will be able to get where you want to be. Just don’t be discouraged to see a 5,000+ parse one pull, and a ~4,400 parse the next. Take this from a BRD main that gets really, really frustrated with my job’s high RNG some nights.

[Asiragan]

The comment wasn't directed at anyone and could have meant anything. What you choose to read into it doesn't warrant that sort of response.

No, it isn't. But that isn't what happened.

The guy got multiple occasion to explain his position on this thread, and elaborate his opinion. Instead of doing it, he made other posts with some sentences that makes even less sense than his first one, even getting somewhat aggressive. He was clearly in the wrong for that.

Plus, this isn't what this topic is about.

In a garbage tier thread, really? Like indirectly telling people you're not good enough so join this group if you don't wanna be looked down on? Not everyone's stuck up. Not everyone gears up like a pro and plays like one or even geared the best at all. Because guess what, not everyone can sink hours into this game or stay subbed all the time. And this thread slick shames people who can't keep up just because you want them to adjust their gameplay to your benefit. What's in it for them? To be spared the shame? How motivating. No wonder there are folks who resist just to resist. You don't see that? You may mean well but if you're not doing/saying things right, your message gets lost.

Nobody on this topic has asked anyone to play like a pro. Most people here have said that it's good to mess things up as long as you learn from them and you're not a burden to your group. And if people advise to join the discord of the Balance, it is mainly because it is full of people ready to help you, and a mine of information on this game. Nobody forced anyone to join.

You're just trying to transform your argument so that people who do not want to improve are seen as victims, which is wrong. It's a MMORPG, you work with teammates, as a team. You do not get carried away by others because you do not want to learn basic rotation.

Minako_Nightsong, for example, said she was trying to improve as a bard. I did not see a single post shaming her. Only words of encouragement or advice.

[Lunaxia]

snip

I don't see anything "rude" about his comments. You jumped to your own conclusions about the context of his post, and when he said you were wrong and making assumptions about him (which you were), you quickly switched tact to calling him toxic and passive-aggressive, abruptly blaming him for not clarifying. I'd call that many things, but "civil" isn't one of them.

But you are one to enjoy assumptions, love.

Well, you would know about assumptions, I suppose.

[SaitoHikari]

Bard is a special case, it's 100% impossible to get accurate numbers when bard is so proc dependent, between piercing resistance debuff and crit buffs from drg/sch your DPS can change drastically.

This. Bard is a very very special case where training dummy numbers do not really translate well at all to actual performance in raids. We are -the- most party comp dependent job in the game DPS-wise, which is mildly ironic considering we're also supposed to be the primary support DPS. And this is all because of how our proc system works and the fact that our damage type is piercing, which essentially requires a DRG in the party at minimum to bring out the really big numbers. Then consider Scholar Chain Strategem, Astrologian Spear, and all the other general damage buffs/debuffs from other jobs on top of that. Bard is pretty much all about trying to turn the RNG to your favor (from multi-dotting packs of enemies to snapshotting Iron Jaws when your buffs/debuffs on the enemy are about to fall off), and this is what lets some of the best Bards in the world keep up or even surpass top tier players of other jobs in a setting where the party comp for the Bard is the most optimized it can be, despite Bard being theoretically the lowest DPS of all the DPS jobs. It looks simple to play, but there's a lot of math and split second decisions to be made.

Every single Bard main right now will tell you that the mere presence of a Dragoon in the party these days will actually boost our own DPS by as much as 400-500. Literally 10% of our DPS in most cases. I find my opener in particular automatically loses about 2k DPS without a Dragoon in the party. The dependence among all three of the piercing jobs (DRG, BRD, and MCH) is an endless source of frustration for the latter two. It's getting to the point where many Bards I know will outright refuse to join a raid team without a Dragoon in it.