Elemental weakness

[Rydin]

Background:

Fire Beats Ice
Ice Beats wind
Wind beats Fire

Earth beats lightning
Lightning beats water
Water beats earth

Every MOB encompasses one element.

An earth MOB is weak to water (good luck on that one) but is strong against lightning

Furthermore... if, for example, Yarzon is an Ice MOB (Strong vs wind, Weak to fire) then all in the Yarzon family are ice. From yarzon feeder to Yarzon Burrower.

Point of contention 1

Are we not allowing for the possibility of a MOB being of 2 elements?
Perhaps a MOB that is both lightning AND fire... or an Earth/Ice enemy?
Also missing are undead versions of the MOBs we've come to love... Who doesn't want to see a Zombie cactuar?

Point of Contention 2

In the great pantheon of Final Fantasy MOB-hood (MOB-dom???) the elemental strengths and weaknesses have rarely been so uniform. Many MOBs have been weak to one element and strong against nothing. Others have been weak or strong to multiple elements. Also there have been varying degrees of weakness/strength.

Example: Grand Mantis in FFVIII was strong against Ice and Lightning, while water had absolutely no effect. All other elements did normal damage

There are so many possible elemental modifiers to consider: 200% damage (very weak), 150% damage (weak), normal damage, 50% damage (Strong), 0 damage (no effect), and levels of absorbed damage (heals the MOB).

Example: FFX Blue Element, weak to Lightning, absorbs water, Fire and Ice do half damage

Point of Contention 3

There is very little room for MOB diversity. You'll never see a fire Yarzon or a lightning mouse/marmot (Pika????)

Example: in FFXII, Cerberus was weak to water, Alpha wolf is weak to earth and Tartarus is weak to Holy yet all are in the same family

Point of Contention 4
Some MOBs just don't fit into the elemental world.

Example: in this game, Wight Warrior is a skeleton and yet, his element is ice. Interesting... The system should allow for non-elemental MOBs, as they are an integral part of final fantasy lore

[Raldo]

tl;dr

Just wanted to ask... Where did you get your information? I was told that mobs are strong to their own element, not the one that is weak to them (i.e. earth mob is string to earth, not lightning).

[CircusMidget]

Pretty sure they take normal damage to their own element. Example: air elemental takes extra damage from ice, reduced damage from fire.

[Rydin]

tl;dr

Just wanted to ask... Where did you get your information? I was told that mobs are strong to their own element, not the one that is weak to them (i.e. earth mob is string to earth, not lightning).

I've actually heard both... I don't know... doesn't change the spirit of my post... but it would be nice to get some empirical clarification


edit:
See.. 2 people posted and they each say its one way or the other....
despite that... the original posts arguments still stand

[Rydin]

by the way... when did a couple paragraphs become tl;dr

I really think the "L" in tl;dr stands for "Lazy" and not "long"

[Raldo]

I started reading and you seemed to be spouting facts that had no basis that I'm aware of. At that point, I stopped reading. What is considered "long" may be up for debate, but I can't read your whole post in my browser without scrolling. Since when has a post with so many carriage returns ever been considered "a couple paragraphs"? Anyway...

"Every mob encompasses one element" - says who? That's kinda the crux of your arguments, and I don't even know where you're getting that 'fact'.

Point of contention 3 -- Who said there'll never be a fire yarzon?

Point of contention 4 -- Who said there are no (or will never be) elementless mobs?

I agree where you're coming from if what you say is indeed true, but unfortunately it is the facts that I question.

Congrats though, you got me to read your post.

[Rydin]

I started reading and you seemed to be spouting facts that had no basis that I'm aware of. At that point, I stopped reading. What is considered "long" may be up for debate, but I can't read your whole post in my browser without scrolling, so...

"Every mob encompasses one element" - says who? That's kinda the crux of your arguments, and I don't even know where you're getting that 'fact'.

Says who? Every Yarzon is weak to fire. Every Marmot is weak to water. These are facts that have been tested ad nauseum.

Point of contention 3 -- Who said there'll never be a fire yarzon?

I am not saying there will never be. I can see where you got that. My bad, It was more of a satirical assertion. I am absolutely hoping we see these

Point of contention 4 -- Who said there are no (or will never be) elementless mobs?

I agree where you're coming from if what you say is indeed true, but unfortunately it is the facts that I question.

Congrats though, you got me to read your post.

I mean, there could be, I guess ... but right now there is not even any defense for non-elemental magic
You can't really refute that

[Raldo]

Says who? Every Yarzon is weak to fire. Every Marmot is weak to water. These are facts that have been tested ad nauseum.

Every monster has been tested? Are there really none with more than one elemental bias, or no bias at all? Do the assassins and pirates that look like player characters have elements?

I mean, there could be, I guess ... but right now there is not even any defense for non-elemental magic
You can't really refute that

Magic evasion could be considered defense for non-elemental magic, but I'd be lying if said that I fully understood what magic evasion does.

I completely agree with your sentiments, but I'd like to believe (perhaps foolishly, after all we've been through with FFXIV) that the capabilities for monsters such as the ones you suggest can exist, and if they're impossible currently, I hope it's in there by 2.0. I think the main problem right now is that the zones are all so large and bland that there's no reason for mobs to be strange or unique. I hope with 2.0 we will see themed zones, such as a place that rains or snows all the time, and that will give them reason to vary the mob elements.

[Rydin]

Every monster has been tested? Are there really none with more than one elemental bias, or no bias at all? Do the assassins and pirates that look like player characters have elements?


Magic evasion could be considered defense for non-elemental magic, but I'd be lying if said that I fully understood what magic evasion does.

I completely agree with your sentiments, but I'd like to believe (perhaps foolishly, after all we've been through with FFXIV) that the capabilities for monsters such as the ones you suggest can exist, and if they're impossible currently, I hope it's in there by 2.0. I think the main problem right now is that the zones are all so large and bland that there's no reason for mobs to be strange or unique. I hope with 2.0 we will see themed zones, such as a place that rains or snows all the time, and that will give them reason to vary the mob elements.

Your last paragraph actually completely captured what I was feeling... I am not saying we'll never see these things.. its more of a plea that they are apparent in 2.0

fingers crossed

[Raldo]

Yes, please. Make monsters with some variety.

Maybe I should have been more abrasive so your thread got more attention XD