Lux Weapon For Red/Sam

[Gemina]

At this point, anima weapons are only useful as glamour. If they released really cool glamour items locked behind a very long, obsolete grind, I'd be very annoyed. What's the upside here?

The journey. Possessing a really cool glamour weapon that you can't just buy, craft, or get through RNG. The fact that through the questline, you will come out of it far more experienced in your chosen job opposed to the person that beelines to max level/ilevel. Especially if you do everything synced. For every dungeon and 8-man trial these things throw you in, you are helping out those other 3-7 players just by running the content with them.

Most players just see the destination, and determine its value based on that alone. I beg to differ, as everything that happens between staring point A, and destination point B is all valuable experience that the game can't put a number on. However, the game can give you a relic, which even after nerfs lets other players know that you are serious about this job you're playing.

I normally keep expectations low, but when I see a player with a ARR and/or HW relic, they go up a bit and I have yet to be disappointed by any of them.

[Talraen]

The journey. Possessing a really cool glamour weapon that you can't just buy, craft, or get through RNG. The fact that through the questline, you will come out of it far more experienced in your chosen job opposed to the person that beelines to max level/ilevel. Especially if you do everything synced. For every dungeon and 8-man trial these things throw you in, you are helping out those other 3-7 players just by running the content with them.

Most players just see the destination, and determine its value based on that alone. I beg to differ, as everything that happens between staring point A, and destination point B is all valuable experience that the game can't put a number on. However, the game can give you a relic, which even after nerfs lets other players know that you are serious about this job you're playing.

I normally keep expectations low, but when I see a player with a ARR and/or HW relic, they go up a bit and I have yet to be disappointed by any of them.

You can take that exact same journey without having RDM or SAM anima weapons. You can do it with any of the pre-Stormblood jobs, or you can even do them on RDM or SAM by just doing all the busywork of the anima quest without actually doing the quests.

Even if you assume people with a relic are generally better, I don't think that assumption holds for people who get a relic once the content is obsolete. They can overgear or even unsync all of the relevant content. It just tells me they're persistent.

[Gemina]

You can take that exact same journey without having RDM or SAM anima weapons. You can do it with any of the pre-Stormblood jobs, or you can even do them on RDM or SAM by just doing all the busywork of the anima quest without actually doing the quests.

Even if you assume people with a relic are generally better, I don't think that assumption holds for people who get a relic once the content is obsolete. They can overgear or even unsync all of the relevant content. It just tells me they're persistent.

There really isn't much reason for SAM and RDM to do what the quest requires. The requirements for the previous two relics, when you boil it down is just doing what most people do throughout their gaming days. They eat up poetics and GC seals like there is no tomorrow, so you run countless dungeons, roulettes, and beast tribes for both quest and poe/seal grind purposes. They can also eat up gil if you don't have your own crafters leveled, or help from one. I did say the journey itself is rewarding, but not the only reward. You still want to yield the fruit of all your labor as well.

And I would have to disagree. Synced or unsynced, geared or over geared; it is still a lot of content you have to go through to complete these things. I never said that this person will play at a savage level, but you can keep your expectations of players in possession of a relic a little higher. You can take them more seriously because they take there job very seriously. You would have to be in order to be "persistent". This persistence you speak of applies to more than just acquisition of the relic; it's also applies to just overall experience in that particular class and role.

[Talraen]

There really isn't much reason for SAM and RDM to do what the quest requires. The requirements for the previous two relics, when you boil it down is just doing what most people do throughout their gaming days. They eat up poetics and GC seals like there is no tomorrow, so you run countless dungeons, roulettes, and beast tribes for both quest and poe/seal grind purposes. They can also eat up gil if you don't have your own crafters leveled, or help from one. I did say the journey itself is rewarding, but not the only reward. You still want to yield the fruit of all your labor as well.

You want the fruit of your labor, but my point is, if they introduce a weapon people will be forced to go through that labor to get it. Your own description doesn't make it sound compelling, so why wall an item behind it? You're thinking about this only from your own perspective, and ignoring the perspective of others who may not feel the same way about the relic quest.

I don't know about you, but when i think about a Anima Lux-style Rapier my mouth starts to water.
Just... a super simplistic looking tuck that, when drawn, sprouts an elaborate, glowing handguard while the crystal-focus gets WHM-Lux like wings?
Sign me the hell up. xD

That sounds cool, but why put it behind an obsolete* relic grind? Why not just make a craftable weapon or something? Creating new glamour behind an old grind is bad design.

*When I say "obsolete" what I mean is that the reward is obsolete, and the original reason for the content (i.e., to get a relevant relic weapon) no longer exists. Coil and Alexander are also obsolete in the same sense, as is the Rowena quest to kill Extreme primals for weapons, etc. All of that content is of course still totally viable, and I heartily encourage people who haven't previously played through Alexander to do so now that Normal Raid Roulette makes it convenient to do so. But you're not going to get a meaningful reward. The rewards from obsolete content are still viable as glamour, but Square Enix knows what a pain they are to get at this point, which is why they make craftable versions of so many of them.

[ArcaneCarbuncle]

That sounds cool, but why put it behind an obsolete* relic grind? Why not just make a craftable weapon or something? Creating new glamour behind an old grind is bad design.

*When I say "obsolete" what I mean is that the reward is obsolete, and the original reason for the content (i.e., to get a relevant relic weapon) no longer exists. Coil and Alexander are also obsolete in the same sense, as is the Rowena quest to kill Extreme primals for weapons, etc. All of that content is of course still totally viable, and I heartily encourage people who haven't previously played through Alexander to do so now that Normal Raid Roulette makes it convenient to do so. But you're not going to get a meaningful reward. The rewards from obsolete content are still viable as glamour, but Square Enix knows what a pain they are to get at this point, which is why they make craftable versions of so many of them.

Consistency, really. Sure, you could make it a crafted weapon, but why do RDM and SAM get a crafted variant of something thats clearly meant to emulate the Lux-aesthetic when everyone else has to trudge through the questline? Or, if everyone else gets a reskin, what stops SE from simply reusing the Model and throwing it in the questline? It's not like the relic questlines aren't reusing the same models multiple times anyway.
Its not like the haven't done this before with the UCoB weapon where they've design completely new models for both SAM and RDM but instead of just giving the glowy variant (like they could have) they went through the trouble of retexturing and throwing those retextures into FCoB.

I'll admit that each Relic uses multiple models, but other than that they are retextured. Hell, the Anima-Weapons use each of their 3 models twice, and not even retextured, simply a non-dyable and a dyable variant.
Its especially frustrating in situations as it is occuring now, where in 4.2 everyone got crafted variants of their Zodiac weapons, except the newer Jobs who got relatively random models, SAM and RDM in particular who got retextured models of weapons that aren't even a year old nor are particularly hard to get.
And the same thing is gonna happen with the UwU weapons, where everyone gets their original relic, except again the newer jobs, who either get their HW-Tomeweapons, or to my pleasent surprise, new models.
If they had simply decided to make new models for the newer Jobs instead of reusing old one they'd be half done with the new old relics already, since they'd reuse the models a dozen times anyway with different glows attached to it.

As said, I understand that the devs have to prioritize, I'm just saying that with a little bit of smart planning it's theoretically possible. Or would have been.

As for the obsolete Questline, yes, they can be a pain to go through, but I personally would feel more accomplished going through the journey to get a relic (even if its just a nice glamour) rather then just buying a reused asset of the market board. Its kinda like the difference between an actually antique Ming-Vase versus a cheap knockoff just for show. Not to mention it doesn't exactly make the content less obsolete.
It just cheapens the meaning of the Relics, imo.

[ArcaneCarbuncle]

1. Cursairs and MCHs don't use their guns in the same way. Similar to how PLDs, SAM, RDMs, and DRKs have different types of swords that are utilized differently. Or BLMs and WHMs.
2. That's an interesting point of discussion about the canonity of dungeon weapons. At the very least, they don't come with an entire questline that establishes key points in Hydaelyn's history. And even if they are canon, they're certainly not going to invest all that time and effort in outdated level 50 weapons, they'll throw the lore in future job-related quests and the glamour designs on future gear.

While that may be true, MCHs still use a rather wide selection of different guntypes in exactly the same way. (Not to mention from whom we learn to use our gun in the first place.) So I'm not sure wether that point can really be applied here.
And I know where you're coming from from a development standpoint and I'm not saying the have to do it, but as i said before, it'd still be a nice gesture to those who want to put the time in. ^^
(And I'd love if they actually decided to establish 'keypoints in Hydaelyns History' or at least proper job-related lore in future Jobquests rather then pulling completely unrelated Storylines out of their butts like they did for some of the SB-Jobquests *coughAstrologiancough* But thats a completely different discussion, so, uh... yeh)

At this point, anima weapons are only useful as glamour. If they released really cool glamour items locked behind a very long, obsolete grind, I'd be very annoyed. What's the upside here?

Obsolete is in the eye of the beholder, just because you wouldn't wanna do it (again) doesn't mean other people don't. And long? Hardly. Especially since you can literally stock up on most Items you'd need before even starting the questline, only using currencies the game a) drowns you in anyway an b) you don't really need for anything else. There's four steps you can't prep for one way or another, most of which can be at least partially soloed if you chose to to so.
Add to that that models are gonna be reused multiple times throughout the questline with different textures and glows anyway I don't really see much of a problem, but oh well...

The journey. Possessing a really cool glamour weapon that you can't just buy, craft, or get through RNG. The fact that through the questline, you will come out of it far more experienced in your chosen job opposed to the person that beelines to max level/ilevel. Especially if you do everything synced. For every dungeon and 8-man trial these things throw you in, you are helping out those other 3-7 players just by running the content with them.

Most players just see the destination, and determine its value based on that alone. I beg to differ, as everything that happens between staring point A, and destination point B is all valuable experience that the game can't put a number on. However, the game can give you a relic, which even after nerfs lets other players know that you are serious about this job you're playing.

I normally keep expectations low, but when I see a player with a ARR and/or HW relic, they go up a bit and I have yet to be disappointed by any of them.

/seconded
I always found Relicquests a good way to 'bond' with the Jobs I play and show my dedication to them.

[BillyKaplan]

And I know where you're coming from from a development standpoint and I'm not saying the have to do it, but as i said before, it'd still be a nice gesture to those who want to put the time in. ^^

They can do a lot of things, but are you willing to sacrifice current content for them adding it in?

*coughAstrologiancough*

The problem with AST is that it's not native to Eorzea so they can't really develop it without stepping on Sharlyan toes. Most jobs came from Eorzea so they could continue to build on it. NIN is a hybrid but had it easy because Othard was added to the expansion. MNK had a frigging field-day. DRK is less about the job and more its impact on you as a character so it doesn't care about geography, and MCH is from Ishgard so they always have something to fall on. AST has none of that, meanwhile the BLM questline came full circle to expand on the same story you hear when you get the Relic weapon.