Selfish DPS Balance

[Rayo]

After talking to some friends/FC mates, we had a somewhat reasonable idea to increase the viability of selfish DPS jobs like SAM, BLM, maybe MCH is they decide to make it the selfish DPS of the ranged DPS jobs.

We thought rather than just making them High Damage, low-to-no utility, make it so they can benefit more from other Job Utilities.

an Example would be something like:

keep SAM's current Potency but give it a trait that allows it to deal even more damage to targets with Slash Debuff and Vulnerablity, and/or maybe give it a trait that allows for it to benefit even more from Physical and Damage up buffs like Brotherhood and Dragon sight

Not sure this is the best example, maybe not even a good solution but I thought it was an interesting enough concept bring up

general idea should be that Selfish jobs benefit even more from party utility than other party memebers

[Shamox]

So basically,
In a meta comp = High Damage - No utility
In a non meta comp = Lower damage - No utility

How does it fix the issue?

[Rayo]

So basically,
In a meta comp = High Damage - No utility
In a non meta comp = Lower damage - No utility

How does it fix the issue?

Theoretically:

who do you want to hit a NIN's Trick attack Vulnerability; a SAM or BLM who could passively deal 20-30% or even 50% more damage on to the target with vulnerability on top of the vulnerability's normal debuff, or any other DPS

who should an AST give a Balance buff to; a SAM or BLM who has a trait that stacks a moderate-to large (30-50%) Potency boost when given any non-user Potency buff from another party member, or any other DPS

both of these "parties" are parties of two, no other jobs there, its the NIN/AST with one other DPS

the idea for selfish shouldn't be "it doesn't help," it should be "all take, no give"
of course, this is all theory talk

[Wayfinder3]

Theoretically:

who do you want to hit a NIN's Trick attack Vulnerability; a SAM or BLM who could passively deal 20-30% or even 50% more damage on to the target with vulnerability on top of the vulnerability's normal debuff, or any other DPS

who should an AST give a Balance buff to; a SAM or BLM who has a trait that stacks a moderate-to large (30-50%) Potency boost when given any non-user Potency buff from another party member, or any other DPS

both of these "parties" are parties of two, no other jobs there, its the NIN/AST with one other DPS

the idea for selfish shouldn't be "it doesn't help," it should be "all take, no give"
of course, this is all theory talk

Alternatively redesign the utility jobs to have low burst potential. bard's burst is kinda strong for the utility it offers. rdm and nin are more tame

[Rayo]

Alternatively redesign the utility jobs to have low burst potential. bard's burst is kinda strong for the utility it offers. rdm and nin are more tame

Potentially, I've always been for rooting for the underdog (buffing weaker/unpopular stuff), over booing the better rival(nerfing popular/Stronger stuff). In a meta where synergy is key its better to add more synergy where there was little to none rather than take away synergy that is already there

[Wayfinder3]

You can't just give SAM and BLM utility, they already do way too much damage when compared to other jobs. while you could keep buffing their numbers. How much do we have to do that before the meta revolves around them. MNK SMN who are essentially the more utility focused version are meta contenders but that doesn't mean that they are so strong you could carelessly buff BLM and SAM. Nerfs are an important part of maintaining balance and right now. MNK, MCH, and SMN are doing what they can to stay afloat. BRD and DRG need to be re-evaluated. NIN on the other hand is in a tough spot. it's pdps is so weak, you can't realistically touch it without breaking everything. even if you were to nerf trick and build it back into the kit. At that point it's another mnk

[Shamox]

Kinda like how AST is for healers. there is a threshold of cards ast must spread before it's more viable than whm do to the large dps disparity between them.

This threshold is RNG doe which is pretty bad, the whole card system based on RNG is just bad.

Theoretically:

who do you want to hit a NIN's Trick attack Vulnerability; a SAM or BLM who could passively deal 20-30% or even 50% more damage on to the target with vulnerability on top of the vulnerability's normal debuff, or any other DPS

If there's a BRD or a MCH in your group, which is the case in any meta composition, DRG is actually better than NIN, so the answer is pretty obvious.

who should an AST give a Balance buff to; a SAM or BLM who has a trait that stacks a moderate-to large (30-50%) Potency boost when given any non-user Potency buff from another party member, or any other DPS

Making plans around an RNG buffs that most of the time is gonna be an AOE card anyway, yes.

both of these "parties" are parties of two, no other jobs there, its the NIN/AST with one other DPS

???

the idea for selfish shouldn't be "it doesn't help," it should be "all take, no give"
of course, this is all theory talk

You need to understand that as long as there is gonna be utility buffs, any selfish DPS is gonna suffer from not having some.
Your solution would either :
-Not make SAM strong enough while not giving it any advantage in a non meta comp (oh ye you gotta realize that a good grp with a meta comp and a bad grp with a meta comp are 2 distinct things, also, selfish DPSs really rise in low to medium skill groups)
-Or, it'd be so strong that it'd just take another job's place which would simply create another issue.

[Rayo]

This threshold is RNG doe which is pretty bad, the whole card system based on RNG is just bad.




If there's a BRD or a MCH in your group, which is the case in any meta composition, DRG is actually better than NIN, so the answer is pretty obvious.



Making plans around an RNG buffs that most of the time is gonna be an AOE card anyway, yes.


???


You need to understand that as long as there is gonna be utility buffs, any selfish DPS is gonna suffer from not having some.
Your solution would either :
-Not make SAM strong enough while not giving it any advantage in a non meta comp (oh ye you gotta realize that a good grp with a meta comp and a bad grp with a meta comp are 2 distinct things, also, selfish DPSs really rise in low to medium skill groups)
-Or, it'd be so strong that it'd just take another job's place which would simply create another issue.

so your answer to the example question of what to pair a job in a vacuum (as in no outside or alternative influences outside of the theoretical statement as to say that so-and-so is better) is to say people should bow to the meta. I never asked for whats best, I asked for whats better.

Instead you of saying something like "NIN and BRD" or whatever, you say that DRG is better than NIN totally ignoring the question.

Instead of saying something like "give MNK the Balance Buff as He deals the most damage" you answer that AST uses RNG and can AOE

so whats your solution; delete them, along with MNK, RDM, SMN, maybe NIN and give the remaining DPS better Utility. Or buff them to a point its better to take a party full of SAMs or BLMs. or Nerf everything. Oh, maybe we get rid of jobs entirely and just make it so all the Jobs are just; Tank, Caster, Ranged DPS, Melee DPS, Healer?

[Shamox]

Ye thats not getting anywhere

[Arcturius]

I brought this up on on another post a few months ago (can't remember if it was Reddit or forums) and I love the idea. It doesn't break solo content and it helps fill the gap of dps because the more other utility you have the more powerful the selfish class becomes. Hopefully enough to make up for no utility. So obviously I support this! But on the other hand there are classes with more utility than others so having those classes (nin brd drg) would still be meta so it doesn't really seem to fix much or it would be hard to balance so I can see why this wouldn't work :/