According to FFLogs, AST pDPS >= WHM pDPS in 4.3

[Wilbow]

Raw Data:
I was checking FFLogs to see if the defensive buffs for DRK indirectly increased its DPS when I came across this "wonderful" finding:

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/21...gregate=amount

AST is now averaging about 40 DPS more than WHM in the 90th percentile. At the 75th percentile, the pDPS of both classes is about the same. Note that this is NOT raid DPS, only personal DPS.


Let's compare this to patch 4.2:

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/21...gregate=amount

By removing clipping and MP issues, the QoL buffs for AST have made it gain about ~350 DPS since last week at 90th percentile. IIRC, AST cards add around 300-350 DPS to the raid with Balance @ 10%, so this QoL buff ends up giving roughly the same rDPS gain for AST as if they made Balance 20% again.


Personal Thoughts:

Although these QoL buffs were necessary and have made the feel of AST considerably better, I was wary that they would indirectly increase AST pDPS to the point where WHM might look a bit less appealing than before. However, even my skeptical mind was not expecting such a large pDPS increase. I'm 99.99% sure SE did not intend for these buffs to be more than a negligible DPS increase for AST, seeing that even experienced AST players weren't expecting it either. However, here we are.

We're only a few days into 4.3 as of this posting, and the data may be an anomaly (although we have a fair number of samples to go with), but what I'm seeing is incredibly worrying. With these numbers, WHM are very likely to see a repeat of the 3.3-3.4 fiasco (although hopefully not as bad), as they now bring hundreds less rDPS compared to their counterparts, and their healing contribution is not as dominant as people think:

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/21...unt&metric=hps

We haven't really seen the 3.3 dynamic unfold yet, thankfully, but logs are still stabilizing and public perception changes gradually after a patch. As more statics start figuring this out and reporting it, the information will trickle down to the masses over the next few weeks. Call me pessimistic, but I hope salt mages enjoyed late HW, because winter is coming.

The thing is that, if we use SCH as a benchmark, AST is actually right about where we expect its rDPS to be to keep things balanced, and I personally applaud the AST buffs. It's just that, given these numbers, WHM pDPS is massively, OBJECTIVELY, and UNDENIABLY undertuned right now. I say that for two major reasons:

1) WHM brings no raid damage buffs. SE's stated -- or heavily implied -- intention is that it is supposed to bring the highest pDPS to compensate. It is now the lowest pDPS.

2) Phenomenon #1 is due to the fact that, since 4.0, the other two healers have now received significant buffs to their DPS, while WHM has seen no potency buffs in kind. I like to call this the "Red Mage phenomenon", for obvious reasons.

Honestly, WHM needs about 300-350 more DPS, and even then its net rDPS will likely be slightly less than its competitors, compensated by its relative safety in comparison. I haven't crunched the numbers, but we're probably looking at around a 20 potency increase to Stone IV and a 10 potency increase to the Aero II DoT (NOT Aero III) at a minimum.

Optimally, these changes should come before 4.4, and hopefully even before 4.35. However, I've been a WHM since around 2.0, and I'm way too experienced with SE balancing to realistically expect that. It's entirely possible we might not even see anything significant before 5.0 if history serves us well. As a WHM main, I can say that I am NOT a happy camper right now.

[Ghishlain]

While this is concerning, I'd like to add that the total number of parses being sampled is significantly lower given the fact that 4.3 is only 4 days old as of this posting.

For a bit more perspective, here are the total healer logs for 4.3 to date. At the time of this posting, there are a total of 6,844 recorded parses (2,595 SCH; 1,934 AST; and 2,315 WHM)

This is in contrast to the total healer logs for 4.2. At the time of this posting, there are a a total of 65,669 recorded parses (25,671 SCH; 24,094 WHM; and 15,904 AST)

I'm not a statistician but I do feel a sample of 6,844 should still be significant enough to give some accuracy and credence to the concern, but I personally would like to see how those numbers evolve two weeks down the line before I make any further analysis or comments.

On a whim, I randomly checked how the new EX Primal is faring at the 90th percentile and it was kinda amusing to see:

90th percentile data for reference

At time of this posting:
WHM leads at 2,735.21 DPS (3,186 parses recorded)
SCH is second at 2,728.04 DPS (3,356 parses recorded)
AST is last at 2,640.34 DPS (2,922 parses recorded)

I feel like I'll keep an eye on these data points as I'm very curious at how this will evolve.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

I've noticed this as well. Even I'm doing more or equal DPS on my AST on average since 4.3, and I'm nowhere near as comfortable on AST as I am on WHM. Not even taking into consideration the raid DPS they add...

As already mentioned, it's just a tad bit too early to panic now, but this is extremely concerning. SCH was already beating WHM in personal DPS, and now AST may be as well. So where is this leaving WHM? This is really starting to look like 3.4 all over again, except it's slightly better because at least WHM has better MP management this time around.

I know that SE, for whatever reason, doesn't like buffing WHM damage, but I think it really needs it at this point. It shouldn't be losing to AST and SCH in personal DPS at all.

[Miste]

I know that SE, for whatever reason, doesn't like buffing WHM damage, but I think it really needs it at this point. It shouldn't be losing to AST and SCH in personal DPS at all.

If it turns out AST is doing equal or pretty close pDPS as WHM then yeah, SE really should give WHM some more pDPS by increasing their potencies.

I'd like to see more of a sample size from the logs first though like Ghishlain said.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

If it turns out AST is doing equal or pretty close pDPS as WHM then yeah, SE really should give WHM some more pDPS by increasing their potencies.

Im just worried, seeing as SE isn't exactly known to care about a healers dps much. Even the AST changes was made for clipping issues, boosting their DPS through this was probably unintentional.
So if you look at WHM purely as a healer, which SE is probably doing, they're completely fine...

But yeah, need to see how things turn out. A lot of these fights aren't exactly friendly to WHM with it's rather low mobility. Any idea if the JP forums are making any complaints? That's where the feedback really matters.

[Squintina]

The sample size itself is fine, but the amount of time isn't. People do play differently when progging vs speed kills, and WHM is usually favored for prog while AST is favored for speed. This early in the patch, this could cause WHM to have lower dps (especially for new fights) because of playing it safe, while the AST logs are probably for groups that are already thinking about numbers and efficiency. As time goes by, the WHM will be playing less safe and pushing out more dps.

It's worth watching, but I wouldn't be too worried about numbers from the first week of a patch.

[Risvertasashi]

Call me pessimistic, but I hope salt mages enjoyed late HW, because winter is coming.

Sigh. I really hope not. I want to get off Square's Wild Ride.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

The sample size itself is fine, but the amount of time isn't. People do play differently when progging vs speed kills, and WHM is usually favored for prog while AST is favored for speed. This early in the patch, this could cause WHM to have lower dps (especially for new fights) because of playing it safe, while the AST logs are probably for groups that are already thinking about numbers and efficiency. As time goes by, the WHM will be playing less safe and pushing out more dps.

It's worth watching, but I wouldn't be too worried about numbers from the first week of a patch.

I think this would be the case for something like savage or Ultimate, but Tsukuyomi? Honestly it feels a little undertuned if anything, especially at ilv 370.

[Risvertasashi]

I think this would be the case for something like savage or Ultimate, but Taukuyomi? Honestly it feels a little undertuned if anything, especially at ilv 370.

Yeah, you can pretty much DPS the entire first phase with only a SCH's fairy for healing. Add phase too mostly, maybe a medica 2 on the last part and a tetra/benison on the tank before.

Even final phase still doesn't require that much, just a bit hectic with mechanics.

[Sebazy]

I suspect things will settle a little bit over the next week or two as you'll have a lot of AST mains pushing harder than normal to get a feel for these changes.

There is definitely no denying that it's a straight up DPS buff for AST though, I was struggling to compete with Valle yesterday and whilst it's fair to note that I was both carrying the healing and that he is certainly a better DPSer than I am, it was still rather surprising that he was 150dps ahead of me even on my best run and typically a fair bit more on the rest.

Fingers crossed SE notice this trend as well as it'd be a good excuse to have another look over a WHM's overall contribution.