According to FFLogs, AST pDPS >= WHM pDPS in 4.3

[Seraphor]

The QoL changes to AST were brilliant, but to have such a change on Lightspeed no longer humping offensive spells was unecesary.
It just changes Lightspeed from a get out of jail free card to a gravity burst phase.

[Jxnibbles]

So both Healers are about the same Pdps as Whm, and they still bring utility to the table. Seems Balanced /s

I wonder if they will even deal with this in 4.4 or just leave it alone till 5.0. This situation feels very familiar.

[ko_]

Is Ast doing more DPS then Whm a bad thing? I don't know as I main monk. I'm generally asking here. - don't hurt me. T.T-

[Lastelli]

Is Ast doing more DPS then Whm a bad thing? I don't know as I main monk. I'm generally asking here. - don't hurt me. T.T-

It is, because of cards. Even before this patch, AST was preferred to whm because it could increase rDPS with cards and this more than compensated for it's inferior pDPS. Right now, however, AST is doing more pDPS than WHM, it increases rDPS by a considerable amount and it can heal just fine. They also made mana issues less impactful with the lightspeed buff. Furthermore, it is now super mobile and doesn't even have to worry about aggro because its more powerful heal does not generate enmity. Honestly, I'm disappointed.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Is Ast doing more DPS then Whm a bad thing? I don't know as I main monk. I'm generally asking here. - don't hurt me. T.T-

Very much so. It relegates White Mage into a similar position occupied by Samurai, i.e. "Why bring this job when its counterparts do almost everything better?" White Mage offers no raid utility outside healing, thus its high personal DPS made it competitive with Astro's rDPS. With the recent changes, all White Mage offers now is better healing and MP management—neither exactly coveted outside progression. And even then, Astro is no slouch.

Put simply, if this continues through larger sample sizes, AST/SCH is once again the de facto best.

I fear this too. Or even worse, they just don't see anything wrong with this in general because WHM can still heal fine, despite it no longer offering much else to the raid

That's another concern as well. They keep using the equivalent to defend Red Mage and Samurai despite both suffering noticeably.

[KDSilver]

Very much so. It relegates White Mage into a similar position occupied by Samurai, i.e. "Why bring this job when its counterparts do almost everything better?

Except that this example doesn't really work entirely for WHM.
It still has a better healing toolkit than Ast.

Ask raid players who will experience Ultimate next week what healers they will bring.
There'll be a lot of WHM for solid reasons.

I'd like to share that message from someone in another thread that is accurate

I did Ultimate with AST (1%) and WHM (clear), and I can say it's far more easier to do this type of fight with WHM than with AST.
Why ?
- AST require more mental load because of : the cards system (you need to know perfectly how to deal quickly with cards depending of the situation), plan Earthly Star 10-20 (or 30 sec with CO) in advance. More cast per minute (mental load).
- Mana management : if it's not managed well or too much death, you can't continu the fight.
- Healing must be accurate, efficient and well planned. Cure III or Benediction is not here to save him and the group in emergency.
With the recents changes to AST, the real benefit he will have now is his mobility, that's all.

So, I don't see again the problem. WHM is similar to RDM, more safety to the group. If you are not for that, change your job.
If you fear WHM will disappear of the screen, it won't.

People need to stop underestimate WHM recovery or strenght.
Benison is up every 30s and mitigate 15% of your target HP. Plenary is an additionnal aoe heal based on stacked/instant cast/we don't even have to care about the range.
Benediction is up every 3min, Cure III is extremely nice for a lot of situation and save you and your co-healer mana and gcd waste.
He has a good DPS burst thx to PoM, in single target and aoe (+assize that also heal and give back mp every min)
The best MP managment of the 3 healers and no fear of dropping to low because of raises or high healing burst.

Seriously, stop only watching dps contribution as if it was the only thing that matters while it's not.
Watch and talk with people around you who push classes performances.

[RLofOBFL]

Whm may be an extremely powerful healer, but not 600+ rdps powerful. I hope they do something about WHM. It feels like it's almost back to HW WHM now(not quite that bad though I suppose). Either WHM needs minor utility and a slight dps buff, a very big dps buff, or third and the worst option imo is it needs a gigantic heal buff.

[Caduagm]

I know it's a little off post, but it's funny to see all the complains about AST's slightly less or equal DPS than WHM and nobody saying a thing about Scholar... :thinking:
Please don't get me wrong, I am all up for whm buffs after this; it's just funny how people are blind about Scholar.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

I know it's a little off post, but it's funny to see all the complains about AST's slightly less or equal DPS than WHM and nobody saying a thing about Scholar... :thinking:
Please don't get me wrong, I am all up for whm buffs after this; it's just funny how people are blind about Scholar.

Tbh, I think people sort of gave up on SCH. SE seems almost biased to them and always makes them the strongest healer hands down no matter what, any issues they have are fixed immediately, any QoL issues are dealt with straight away.
--

@KDSilver

Personally I don't think it's really healthy to have certain jobs only balanced for progression and falls behind afterwards. I feel like every job should at least have a chance at excelling in their role. As it is now, no mater what a WHM does, they can't beat an AST, but an AST can still heal all content like a WHM can, I just don't think that's fair.

Now, don't get me wrong. WHM is still a strong healer, but that's all they are. They really don't bring anything else to the raid otherwise. Will this kill them? Not at all. Will they be getting locked out of PF? Nah. You'll probably be the last choice people want in their raid, but that's as far as it will go I feel. This is nowhere near in the level of 3.4.

[Tint]

I know it's a little off post, but it's funny to see all the complains about AST's slightly less or equal DPS than WHM and nobody saying a thing about Scholar... :thinking:
Please don't get me wrong, I am all up for whm buffs after this; it's just funny how people are blind about Scholar.

SCH doesn't compete with WHM for a spot - AST does.

so WHMs don't care about SCH.

edit: wait a moment, the wording is bad o.ô; i mean an AST can replace a WHM, a SCH cannot. but of course you are competing against SCH when the group already has an AST.