relic weapons whats with crappy ilvl and wait

[silentwindfr]

the point is not get a full raid gear, but make relic that at the end can end to be extremely long to get (well not right now the SB one is kinda fast for now, but next step is coming), since for get the last relic of the series, you will need to do many thing and spend a loooot of time into it, then it's normal to ask that this weapon can be at the same level than raid, since, it's only one weapon.

raid still earn different skin, and more powerfull armor and accessory.... then one more weapon that can be chosen for do anything (raid included) is welcome, no?

[HiroKirito]

As multiple people have pointed out, a weapon on par with the raid weapon is not required in anyway for any content outside of ultimate and the next raid tier.

I tend not to weigh in on this. But often the entire argument for why relics should be equal hinges on "effort versus reward", I'm sorry but having beaten the last 3 tiers of savage and also done the relevant relic weapons simultaneously, you are delusional if you think the two are anywhere near equal in the amount of effort or time invested.

Put in perspective for this tier alone, Rng is a factor, I was number 7/8 in my static to receive my weapon. That's 7 weeks of clears (plus the time we had to invest in learning the fight plus the clearing the previous 3 fights), Eureaka dropped I had 3 relic weapons and a full armour set in under a week....

People really can't talk about equal investment etc when they haven't even set foot in savage.

[Reynhart]

I'm sorry but having beaten the last 3 tiers of savage and also done the relevant relic weapons simultaneously, you are delusional if you think the two are anywhere near equal in the amount of effort or time invested.

But still, beating Savage also gives you the best armor, so raiding would always end up with a more powerful character than not. But by putting every reward into raid, you just ensure than your other content will be meaningless for the raiding community, and have reduced value for the rest of the playerbase...especially since we'd still have this cheap tome weapons...

Besides, if something like the relics would actually be the best weapon right away, it could give confidence to some people to try EX Primals (for best accessories) and Savage raiding (For best armor).

[Vaer]

Besides, if something like the relics would actually be the best weapon right away, it could give confidence to some people to try EX Primals (for best accessories) and Savage raiding (For best armor).

Best armor for 3 months. If you don't raid secondaries mean very little. They give everyone access to raid level 370 ilvl gear on odd patches. What would be the point in putting accessories on odd patches for EX primals when you can already get them without doing the EX Primal? If the relic is better, what's the point in doing the EX primal if it drops weapons? Are we going to pull the accessories out of savage and the tome ones to make it work?

The EX primal weapon has a use to raiders even now. The ones that are stuck on O7S can get a weapon upgrade that isn't weekly capped to help them beat it since the i370 weapon is only available from that fight. It also helps returners get a decent weapon without having to deal with weekly tokens from sigma normal, and about 3 weeks of tomes and it's only 5 ilvl lower than the tome upgraded weapon that only O7S clearers have access to.

This is a have your cake and eat it too scenario.

I'm only talking about gear and not glamour btw.

What gear reward do you suggest them putting into Ultimate then if it's not going to be one of the best weapons?

What about Heaven on High? It has a weapon, too. If relic is better what's the point in doing that to get the weapon?

I feel like the current design (basically delaying higher ilvl weapons by a month to give content relevance) allows them to be more flexible in what rewards they can provide.

I mean I guess it might work if it was super grindy (think gordias unidentified step) but then it wouldn't even be a casual weapon anymore. By the time most people finish it a new set of weapons will be out making the work mostly pointless so it would be a wash until the end of expansion, but the relic is already better at end of expansion usually so nothing would really change except it becoming a super grind.

[Reynhart]

What would be the point in putting accessories on odd patches for EX primals when you can already get them without doing the EX Primal? If the relic is better, what's the point in doing the EX primal if it drops weapons? Are we going to pull the accessories out of savage and the tome ones to make it work?

If you read what I wrote, the idea is exactly that only EX primals would drop accessories and tha the only weapons would be in Additionnal content. So, no content would negate another one since they'd all give different slots.

What gear reward do you suggest them putting into Ultimate then if it's not going to be one of the best weapons?

Considering Ultimate Weapons are already at the same ilvl as raid weapons, they only marginally improve your character already. So, I'd say something like unique mounts. Or, if the game would actually have more depth, some unique effect on gear, not related to a mathematic advantage.

[Vaer]

If you read what I wrote, the idea is exactly that only EX primals would drop accessories and tha the only weapons would be in Additionnal content. So, no content would negate another one since they'd all give different slots.

So we're going to completely delete upgraded tome gear and accessories? Because that system falls apart if tome gear still exists. (You need the base ilvl (in this case 360) to provide a reward for the even patch EX primal) Personally, I think that is a really bad idea. So players who don't do EX or raid are stuck at lower ilvls just so they can have a better weapon. Seems like a bad trade. Right now you get everything else after 3 months but the weapon is delayed.

I actually wouldn't mind that personally, but it would really hurt casual players and non raiders. The power gap would widen and they wouldn't be able to join some PFs since their avg ilvl would be lower than someone who does all the harder content. Not to mention having the "BiS" stuff in only certain types of content it will probably get weekly locked vs now where the ilvl is not the "best" but has no weekly lock. (EX weapons)

[HiroKirito]

Snip

We didn't beat it with the best armor, or at max ilvl. Other content isn't meaningless to raiders. My static does all content, we aren't the best, we don't compete for worlds first but for example we held world 8th speed kill for shin ex when relevant.

The point is though we didn't walk into those fights and clear already geared a max ilvl. We put in a lot of time and effort. My static has been 2 years in the making, that's not kicking bad people, that's the same members continuously developing and improving every single patch.

It's a matter of perspective, the bulk of "non-raiders" veiw it as "raiders" are more skilled or that these fights are easier for them. It's easy not to think about the time and investment raiders put into these fights and handing out equal weapons to people who haven't attempted savage completely trivializes that effort.

[Adeacia]

You don't need I375 if you're not raiding.

You don't need it if you ARE raiding. By having it you already proved you don't need it by clearing the content without it.

[HiroKirito]

you don't know me, 2.0 relics four completed, 3.0 relics nine completed, 4.0 relics all 355 completed, i been playing ffxiv since 2013 don't let the join date confuse you. i see now how people like you like to be rude, i'm a retired USAF Security Forces member and i can play what i like.

So exactly as I said you've only done relics and not attempted savage? But you believe them to be equal in terms of effort?

It's hardly "rude" and none of what you have said justifies or supports the arguement as to why a relic weapon should be on par with a raid weapon at release.

Sure you can play what you like, but you're expecting a reward equal to content you don't want to play. The content is there if you want the reward, It's your choice wether you do the content or not.