And so it begins again

[Miste]

A very small percentage of the player base actually come on the forums, and an even smaller portion are actually from Chaos, and an even smaller portion actively main WHM.

Yes, exactly, and you yourself are an even smaller percentage of one single player with an anecdotal experience and no proof that a large amount of groups are locking out WHM solely because it is WHM. So you actually defeated yourself with this response.

Yes, the other Chaos posters who replied are also anecdotal experiences, but if there was a "large amount" of groups excluding WHM like you claimed in your OP...doesn't that mean they should have seen some of what you saw by now??

They cast a lot of doubt on your claims..especially since you have zero evidence.

I think it's fairly obvious when a group is replacing members, it looks similar to the SS you posted. These groups were new, ordered, several roles specified, no gaps in the party list.

Just because there are no gaps in the party list doesn't mean no one left the PF and needs to be replaced. You are just making assumptions again. I told you unless you sent a /tell to the leader and they specifically told you "I'm locking out WHM because AST is better" then you have zero context.

[Yuyuka3]

Yes, exactly, and you yourself are an even smaller percentage of one single player with an anecdotal experience and no proof that a large amount of groups are locking out WHM solely because it is WHM. So you actually defeated yourself with this response.

Yes, the other Chaos posters who replied are also anecdotal experiences, but if there was a "large amount" of groups excluding WHM like you claimed in your OP...doesn't that mean they should have seen some of what you saw by now??

I remember being told at the end of 3.X that I'm seeing things when I said WHMs are getting excluded, but apparently now it's common knowledge.

Btw, I just got asked why I'm not playing AST instead of WHM. Again.

[Lunaxia]

etc. etc..

A single player who observed the groups in the Chaos PF, which is more representative of the general atmosphere there than several Aether posters telling me I imagined it. I have proof, I've seen it. Again, if you choose not to believe me, that is your business.

etc. etc. etc. etc. ...

I do have evidence, otherwise I wouldn't have posted, I just don't have any that satisfies you, and that's not my problem. If those posters have had more luck in PF, that's great, but I've witnessed WHMs being on the outside once again, gradually, but notably stronger with this patch.

snip

I did not take any, admittedly I should have foreseen being called a troll, a liar, paranoid and being told my own eyes are somehow wrong. Though I'm sure if I had, they'd have been discredited somehow.

snip

The other night I almost changed my search info to "No, I won't switch to AST" after the same thing happened. I want my cane, all right?!

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I've neither been criticised, nor am I lying.

I suppose Sebazy will have to chime in on the EU scene because you have multiple people from Aether and Primal claiming otherwise. And seeing I have been in multiple groups for the primal, I've looked enough times to know WHM getting locked out simply isn't a thing here. Why not post some screenshots?

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Just out of curiosity I checked PF again during prime time raiding hours.

14 Tsukuyomi parties on Aether, not a single one locking WHM out. Some of them even had two WHMs in them lol. Not sure why you're so adamant about making a big deal out of something that is clearly not happening.

[Ghishlain]

Check Aether PF at 4:36PM on May 24th. Certainly not prime time but there were still 7 parties up. Here are their compositions.

Party #1 - AST+WHM
Party #2 - No healers (no healer exclusions)
Party #3 - SCH+AST
Party #4 - AST+WHM
Party #5 - AST+WHM
Party #6 - WHM+SCH
Party #7 - WHM+AST

~Screenshots of the parties can be found here~

Still not seeing any WHM exclusions based on the above. SCH is certainly the least representative of the pairings so far but it's an incredibly small sample size too.

I'll check again later tonight when my group is getting together to do this fight.

I'd be curious to see how the PFs on Chaos look since it should be prime time / near the end of prime time for them at the time of this posting. Screenshots would be nice to compliment this request.

The other night I almost changed my search info to "No, I won't switch to AST" after the same thing happened. I want my cane, all right?!

Then tell them you want to play WHM and leave it at that.

[Beelhi]

I havn't seen a single PF locking out WHM, if anything, whenever I try to join, WHM was already in the group (and i have checked alot of groups). OH actually, I saw ONE Log group that wanted SCH/AST so...i guess that means you're right? <.<
Stop kidding yourself, you saw 1-2-3 groups that wanted AST/SCH, doesn't mean WHM is being locked out in the majority of the content.

[miraidensetsu]

Well, not even me, that has feared that lockout, hadn't seen any WHM lockout. At least, not on Primal.

And I went to parties normally, without any changes. I wasn't locked out from parties nor kicked out. And I'm WHM.

[Maeka]

Now I'm not up to the level of doing Tsuku EX (I haven't really messed with any EX primals to be honest), but after reading the thread...



Seriously, Lunaxia... you've been proven wrong time and time and time again.... it'd look a lot better for yourself if you'd just concede that maybe you did indeed jump the gun. Yes, I get the fear of being left in the dust, and I get that it sounds like AST and SCH are getting all the goodies and you're afraid WHM will be left behind.

I dunno about you, but when I play WHM, I find that my character performs the Healer role quite admirably despite my own failings. The job isn't perfect, but dang, it can sure pump out the heals like nobody's business, and Stone still hurts as ever, Holy Spam still wrecks face on multiple enemies like it always has. The job is a very no frills-no nonsense get'er'done type deal from what I've experienced.

I can't speak about the highest of the highest content, the Savage Raids and what-not, but EX Primals are hardly Savage Raids. I haven't heard of anybody trying to min-max EX Primals except for a few idiots on PF asking for ludicrous gear levels/achievements/etc.

Fact is, I've been hearing the opposite, at least on NN. The general consensus seems to be that the newest couple EX Trials are easy as crap. I don't know if that's true or not as I've not done them, but that's what I've been hearing.

If it's "Easy as crap" then no, nobody's gonna care if you bring WHM, AST or SCH. As long as you know how to play the job.

[Lunaxia]

snip

I've been told there's apparently no problem on Aether and Primal, and for that I'm glad. But I've also been called a liar, which I'm not. I did see a trend among the healers, less than two days after a patch that brought more changes to classes already fairing better in terms of efficiency and utility, despite being told there was no danger of it happening, and it's a trend I'm worried will increase.

If people think I'm wrong, fine. But I take issue with saying "I'm making something up" or even trolling because it conflicts with their own experiences. I'm not taking back something I've seen with my own eyes to make other people feel better.

WHM

It is easy, and optimising for it is ridiculous, but it's been cropping up as I'd feared. WHM feels on thin ice because it offers nothing else but those no-frills heals, and they're typically not even necessary (in fact, you hope they won't be.) More WHMs generally feel shunted into AST or SCH for this reason, and that's another form of the problem.