Revelations from Patch 4.3

[Belhi]

Four Lords:

While these quest might technically be 'filler' it was nice for us to focus on Genbu for a bit and here his story. More significantly, there was some pretty fascinating potential revelations from this which could have interesting implications.

Firstly, the Auspice thing nicely works characters like the Monkey King into the lore. It gives them a lot of freedom going forward to pass off beast like supernatural creatures as Auspices, instead of having to make everything into a primal.

Secondly, and more importantly, was the fact that beast tribe members can become Auspices. This obviously raises a huge number of questions. Is it due to their animal traits that allow one from a beast tribe to become an Auspice or is it something that anything living can possibly become if it lives long enough. If it is the first, could potentially the origin of many of the beast tribes be due to Auspice ancestry. Considering how often beast tribes have a 'god' that shares traits with them it could explain a lot. Even the Namazu from the new beast tribe quests revere and ancestor called the Big One.

Either way I think the whole thing with Auspices opens up a lot of new possibilities lore wise going forward.

Also nice to see Tataru had made an effort to try and continue making herself less dependent on protection but she is still an awful arcanist. At the very least she needs to learn how to not run around like a chicken with its head cut off. Having done the scenario as dps though her healing was quite welcome.

[Alleo]

re: 24 man raid

In the prima vista they tell you that apparently the explosion was created by ramza fighting the brother of construct 7

Thanks for the info. Seems that I need to talk to them again.

But since Ramza is a "Garlean" (I mean "our" Ramza got his name from him right?) that kinda implies that maybe some of the machines and things they created went bad and thus they ended themselves?

Ugh its really not that good to have such a big span between the stories, I kinda start to forget stuff.

Edit: So I went back to the ship and read a bit. Ramza was part of Ivalice but somehow he seemed to had angered the church there. Did he start the fight on his own will because he found out something bad or was it a accident? Kinda curious how that will go. Anyway that kinda shows that a state has killed itself again through bad technology use. Also its interesting how one of the NPCs says that Garlemald was founded by 7 tribes so any of those tribes could be from Ivalice so not all of Garlemald is from there.

At the same time I am still curious how people so advanced needed other tribes to survive. Was it because they had nothing left to built on? And how big was their tribe if the whole nation had to leave Gog behind? (I mean its huge) Could it be that they went on their own way and only a small amount of people went to the now Garlean territory? And wouldnt that mean that there exist even more races with Ivalice "blood" in them?

But I found some parts strange:

It was said by an NPC that Dalmasca was ruled for nearly 1000 years and destroyed 30 ago by Garlemald (and that Rabanastre was even older) and that the lighthouse was used for centuries by people of Dalmasca but that they just found the ruins left and used it as a lighthouse..how exactly would that go in hand with Ivalice people being more direct ancestors of Garlemald? Garlemald itself was founded 50 years ago. So the explosion itself and leaving Gog behind must have happened at least over 100 years ago if not more (since she talks about more than one century). How was it then that these people could not use all their knowledge of the old technology to built a new nation and needed so much time and other tribes?

A NPC talks how Gogs people maybe being anchestors of Garlean means that this is their home but is it really? Again if the numbers are correct Gog existed quite a while ago and Garlemald itself was founded by 7 different tribes and it seems only one was from Ivalice. How would that give them the right to call it home? I mean inbetween that other folks lived and used it and who knows if not another race was there before them. And Dalmasca itself seems to have been in one hand a really long time so its also not their home.


Anyway it seems that Dalmasca existed free from Ivalice for nearly 1000 years under one dynasty and next to that there was a time where Ivalice people lived and built Gog. Which was destroyed by Ramza in a battle (thus destroyed from someone of their own race) and they leave and people from Dalmasca start to use it as a lighthouse for centuries until Garlemald destroys Dalmasca 30 years ago. Also the original Gog folk seems to then have lived a bit of time ago and thus some of them may be part of Garlemald anchestors but since they are 7 tribes its only a small part of it. And like that one NPC said, if you get back in time you will probably find out that more and more tribes/races were once related to another and thus maybe have one common anchestor.

I hope I took it the right way? Its some nice information but I will see how they will prove anything since it was quite some time ago.

[silentwindfr]

shadow hunter and the meeting:

i the emperor did asked them to attack at this place, mostly because it's an unhabited area then "dead man tell to tales" behind the emperor can pretend that the peace negociator did disappear after go to doma and break down the peace faction and restart the war.
for the shadow hunter, i will not be suprise to learn that his base is nearby, since it's a place that was affected by a huge ether disaster, maybe it have a link with the ascien. we will learn more next patch i hope

[KageTokage]

On the subject of the Burn...

I'm hoping that we're going to get to explore the place as a zone in the 4.x cycle, perhaps as a new exploratory mission.

I'm really curious as to what kind of event could've provoked primal summonings on such a scale as to render the land completely devoid of aether, but I feel like it's going play into the bigger picture on a significant scale once we do learn the truth.

The empire started to dread primals specifically because they happened to witness the event that created the Burn, so I don't doubt for a moment that the Ascians had a significant hand in whatever occurred, likely more then simply informing some troubled group of how to conduct a summoning.

[Schan]

Well most of my questions and thoughts have been covered already.... except one thing and to be honest i'm incredibly embarasssed at how this one thing has been bothering me.

I understand that timelines are kinda confusing and stuff but....

How do Garleans age? Are they like a middle ground between Hyurs and Elezen?

In the 24-man it has been implicit that Livia was there when Dalmasca fell but it fell 30 years ago. Does that mean she was in her 40s when we killed her? So does that mean Lucia is in her ~40s as well? What? but her bio says she's 28 i think. I'm so confused.

I never thought this would bother me. Send help.

Everything else I'm fine with it. It will be explained in time. Besides it's fun to make your own theories.

Edit:

I'm also worried Revenant Toll will be emptier now... I liked the place.

[Asiragan]

To me, the MSQ was like watching a Shakespear tragedy but also the desacralization of the warrior of light.

After the event in Doma's Castle, Yotsuyu lost her memories and became entirely a different person. By living beside Gosetsu, she learnt the warmth of parental love.

In a sense, it was Heaven's way to give her a second chance, a way to redeem herself.

During the events of 4.3, she finally regain her memories, while encountering both of her adoptive parents. Thus she is confronted by a decisive choice :

• She either go back to the Castle, where Gosetsu and Hien are and face her judgement. Then she eventually got traded in exchange for the prisoners, but their is a definitive possibility that she could stay, protected by Gosetsu, and spent the rest of her life trying to right her wrongs.
  
  * Or she give in to her desire of vengeance. Rejecting by the same way her redemption.

Of course, if you have played the 4.3 scenario, you know how it ends. Yotsuyu have killed both of her parents, thus sealing her fate. She rejected everything, even Gosetsu, and even her humanity by becoming a primal, for the sake of revenge.


During the fight against Tsukuyomi, we see her fear attacking her. Her parents, the domian, her brother, etc... We tried to protect her from this, but we would have failed if Gosetsu's image didn't block Zenos' shadow.

And I think this is were it show our failure as Warrior of Light. Because her only image of a "virtuous person" was the old samurai. He was the only light in her heart, the only rempart against her worst fear.

At no point, an image of the Warrior of Light appear to help her. Or perhaps you could say that Gosetsu was her Warrior of Light?

He was the only one who accepted everything of her, even the Yotsuyu before she lost her memories, and still cared for her.
Just think about it : The Empire either want her dead or want to use her like a tool. Hien want to use her like some exchange money if she got her memories back, while Yugiri just want her head.
And us, the warriors of light, are just standing here, hoping that she don't regain her memories so that Gosetsu stay happy. Or worse, that she regain her memories, so that something happen.

But at the end of the battle,we found at our feet the corpses of a brother and his sister, after they killed each other. And a grieving Gosetsu.

Some Warrior a Light we are, right?

I wonder what make us so different from Zenos, right now? This event showed us that we are no messiah, but just an overpowered killing machine, striving for the next battle that will make us feeling alive.

[ObsidianFire]

Timeline of the Events Mentioned in the 24-Man... with supplements from the lore book.

??? - Exact Dates Unknown
Clockwork City of Goug is built in the ocean south of Ivalice
Events of the FFXIV version of Tactics take place, during this time, the middle portion of the Clockwork City of Goug is destroyed and the Ridorana Cataracts begin to form
The survivors of Goug abandon the island and travel north to Ilsabard (to Ivalice probably)
Dalmasca founded with input from auracite/gods?

6th Astral Era
800 - The Garleans are forced out of their homeland in Ilsabard and begin to migrate North
922 - The Republic of Garlemald is founded
1515 - Garlean expansion begins under Solus
1517 - Solus becomes Emperor of Garlemald
???? - Dalmasca annexed by the IVth Legion
1552 - Doma annexed by the XIIth Legion0
1557 - Ala Mhigo annexed by the XIVth Legion
1562 - Battle of Silvertear Skies
???? - Dalmascan rebellion quelled by Livia sas Junius 30 years after Dalmasca was annexed
1572 - 1.0
Current - Rumors of a Princess Ashe leading a resistance in Rabanastre

The general idea is that some of the Garlean's ancestors were form Goug. They abandoned the city for the continent after their city/tower was destroyed (and were taken in by the country of Ivalice). Ivalice's population is then forced out of Ivalice and they eventually found Garlemld in the far north of Ilsabard. Dalmasca is then founded where Ivalice was.

Liva was not at Dalmasca when it was annexed. Thirty years after Dalmsca was annexed by the XIth Legion, there's a large enough rebellion that Garlean reinforcements are needed in Rabanastre. Livia (and part of the XIVth probably) are those reinforcements. I assume this happens after Ala Mhigo has fallen as this would put the Dalmascan annexation happening in the forty year gap between Garlemald becoming and Empire and Doma (which is south of Dalmasca) being annexed. Whether this happens after the Battle for Silvertear Skies is more iffy.

Further thoughts on Yotsuyu

I find it very interesting that Tsuyu's reaction to remembering what she did as Yotsuyu is to commit suicide. She almost does it too. It's only due Asahi's timely intervention that she's even alive to summon Tsukuyomi (or is in the right frame of mind to do it).

The thing with me about Yotsuyu is that we have no personal connection with her. She's really nothing more then an obstacle to us for Doman peace. The only way I can see her having a connection to us is if the WoL is from Doma which varies from person to person.

She's not like Ysalye or Estinian where we spent the greater part of an MSQ traveling with them.

[Iscah]

Previous lore regarding The Burn:

The cave-dwelling Uyagir in the Nhaama desert (cave entrance at X:8.8, Y:29.6) seem to claim their ancestors were responsible for what happened. It's not from a quest, just standard NPC dialogue.

Baavgai explains:
We live here to make amends for our sins. In the past, having grown drunk off its own greed, our tribe embarked on a mission to subjugate all that it possibly could.
In response to our insatiable greed, the gods punished the Uyagir by unleashing giant, oliphant-like beetles upon our lands.
The beetles left absolute devastation in their wake. Rivers dried up, crops wilted and cavernous holes were dug in the southern deserts.
Our ancestors, faced with the result of their avarice, swore to repent for their mistakes. They chose to live in the caves bored by the giant insects and abandon all greed.

So... did they summon a primal to defeat their enemies? Were the beetles some kind of primal gone out of control or even someone else's primal? (something on the scale and behaviour of Bismarck I suppose.) Or even Allagan bio-warfare or machinery as perceived by a primitive tribe?

It's a little ambiguous whether they are currently living in the bored caves though, or if they moved out into different caves later. But the world map does have a drawing of a giant worm (beetle larva) in The Burn, so that part seems to add up.


They also have cave murals that, according to one of the other tribesmen, "tell stories of our ancestors' greed":

(I only took the one screenshot and forgot to check the other cave walls to see if they had different images. This one doesn't seem particularly useful in the end.)

All on the right seem to be hunters and horses, directly behind the scaffolding are mammoths (?) and at the top is a warrior with a sword riding possibly-a-yol.

I'm not certain but I think this might be the same mural in the cave where you fight the yol at the end of Bardam's Mettle. Whether that would mean anything or if they just recycled the design.

Ascians:

From MSQ Lv46 "The Black Wolf's Ultimatum", cutscene 2:

Minfilia: "That they might work unseen, the Ascians entrap and possess mortal men by means of malign artifacts known as Crystals of Darkness. [...] The Crystal that binds Thancred must be somewhere on his person. If we could but destroy it, his Ascian possessor would be compelled to relinquish control over him."

So yes, 'destroy the crystal' and the host can be freed without killing them, though they never go into the details of how we do it.

[Demafogotto]

@Asigaran

On the MSQ

I don't quite get what is your point here? A Warrior of Light is no better than Zenos because he... sometimes fails to prevent bad things from happening to people? If that would be intentional, i would understand, but here WoL is basically getting bashed for not being able to save everyone again.

Yotsuyu didn't get a "paragon" spectre of WoL because to her he or she was a nobody. Her parents, the domans, her brother, Zenos and Gosetsu all had personal value to her. Besides, the paragon virtue of Warrior of Light (and warrior of light as a concept really) is that he or she delivers people from monsters, which isn't very comforting to a person considering herself one. If anything, if WoL was to get a spectre, he would be a part of her tormentors to deliver a silent justice she deserved. And WoL is already on it in person.

Besides, Yotsuyu wouldn't be the first one we "failed" to save, be it from attack or mental turmoil. Is WoL somehow less of a WoL for not talking to Edda before he went full insane? For trusting Laurentius several times too much without showing true way? For missing Thancred to Ascians? For not being there when the imperial raid after Titan happened? For not cheering up Ysayle after she learns a harsh truth which ultimately let her to sacrifice herself for you? For letting Estinien fall to his inner rage and lust for vengeance and turn into Nidhogg? For not shielding his or her dearest friend? WoLs victories are numerous, but so is his or her failures.

And that makes Warrior of Light into insatiable battle-hungry maniac... because he didn't spend enough time with someone or was in a wrong place in a wrong time, and it's all his fault? He or she clearly shows remorse when it's due, so it is not like he or she cherishes a new challenge out of misery of others.

By the way, this is one of the themes of 60-70 DRK questline, about how many people who died by WoLs hand deserved a kinder fate.

[Remedi]

Gathered some of my thoughts so...[will edit several times]

about MSQ [consider I have only the ENG version to go by]

For the doma part I won't say much since it's quite straightforward, however I'll say that in my opinion they wanted to show us how terrible Asahi was to the point I consider him a worse monster than Yotsuyu, because if she became a monster out of despair, he became a monster of his own will, but ultimately he was a small fish, if you think about it his interpretation of the plan that totally-not-Elidubus gave him was extremely flawes. The moment Yotsuyu returned to him she stopped beign a doman citizen and became again a full-fledged citizen of the empire, as such the claim that Doma had summoned a primal would've been void since apparently only he was on board with this plan and this brings me to the belief that he was not meant to return home alive.
I'm not sure if Elidubus knows of his defeat and sent those assassins against the airship with this knowledge but for now I'd say the he was meant to die in the burn so that nobody would've known the truth of what happened there. Because let's face it he was a pityful man that wished to please the one he adored and while Zenos never cared about him, Elidubus exploited it for his plan.

Now on to the meatier part. The second arc of the MSQ in my opinion is the meatiest one, if the first arc was expected, the second imho wasn't.
They essentially told us that Zenos is Elidubus in his body, which some predicted correctly debunking the possibility that Zenos himself survived our encounter........not!. Out of nowhere they drew upon the Sahagin storyline and gave us Zenos echo-jumped into a Resistance fighter, while I expected the current body of Zenos beignn inhabited by the real Zenos because of that scene, this is probably the best way to go about it. It's yet unknown when it happened but I believe that Elidubus doesn't yet know this, in the ENG version Zenos sounded surprised about this turn of events and sees it as a way to continue the hunt. Does this mean he will be a wild card in the table? Who knows, it's possible that he is with Elidubus as other have pointed out, which means trouble for the current emperor because we've been shown that he has discovered that he's not on top of the game as he thought he was . The coming conflict seems interesting.
The other important bit is that we have the confirmation that the Populares exist and are becoming the mayority in the empire, which is something that will play a part in our coming into the empire I'm sure.

And then we had The Burn cutscene, with the new duty system which was something that excited me since it opens so much possibilities in the future, but the most important parts is that Gaius is back, if it's not him, it's a cruel joke on the writers part, but I'll say that the hints are too much weighted on that direction for it to be just a red herring.
Now, The shadowhunter has said us that he's hunting ascians as he consider them the real evil, now he's also leading the survivor of the populares to safety. I presume that Gaius might eventually come to lead the populares faction and move the focus of the empire from destroying the primals to the destruction of the ascians as they are the root of the summoning problem, however we know what this lead the first shard. The plot tickens and frankly 4.4 and to an extent 5.0 can't come any faster

Ridorana

First of all let me say I liked how they portraied Ramza (the current one) in this part, he was a prick fpor most of the time, quite unpleasant, but the point is I could buy it since he's a garlean youth, I can totally see him beign a member of the optimates if he wasn't part of an exiled troupe , he kinda made me loathe asahai more because it made me think that boys in garlemand are taught to be condescending towards others (the Thespian is too btw since once the reveleation of Garleans originating from Ivalice he's quick to say that their invasion was justified as a reunion or reclamation of their ancestors home) yet Ramza while a prick is not a monster like the worm that Asahi is.
Sadly I don't have a lorebook so I'll leave the timelines to others, but the overall revelations and world building in this story made me appreciate it a bit more than MSQ even though the questline had an hiccup with the fecth quest which I found broke the momentum and was honestly filler, but I kinda liked the intention, because it helped fix the story in the world which I felt kinda lacked in the shadow of mhach (which imho to appreicate completely you need to run lost city and AK hm to completely understand ). As said cool idea but terrible execution, I think if they plan to do this more they should aim to have this kind of quests separated from the main one and be unlocked after a certain criteria is met like the four lords questline or the saltery quest that is unlocked once you complete the doma story.
As for the raid I think they found a good blend of tactics and FFXII but I never expected Yazmat a non lucavi to be a boss here, though they made him a lucavi in this implementation, however I wonder what would be the sign of it since the auracite used in the creation of him was the Duma, which was used previously, I suppose that they are not really using the signs anymore, which makes me believe that the next 2 FF12 espers to be used will be Chaos and Addramalech since Lightning and wind are the remaining elements not yet touched even though chaos was the taurus sign of which duma was the lucavi, so I'm kinda on the edge.
Also something I noted is that now we have 3 auracite stones do they intend to make them the dusk, dawn and midnight shard? and I also have the feeling that Ramza is beign possessed by past Ramza which will eventually lead to a confrontation with Delita