Thread: Revelations from Patch 4.3

Originally Posted by Mysteltain

I don't really think that's a possibility.

Asahi didn't have the Echo as far as we know. Plus, the soldier mentions the hunt which was Zenos' entire purpose in life.

That's exactly why I think that

Zenos has studied the Echo, so he shouldn't be that suprised to not be dead, which the character certainly seems so. And the hunt was Zenos' purpose in life which he gladly abandonned when he happily killed himself.
And Asahi is probably the guy who wishes to pursue Zenos' goal, or, in that case, hunt. Besides, it should be quite some time since Zenos died lorewise, so I don't understand why he should only realize now that he's not dead.

Originally Posted by Chewy2nd

So I've been thinking, at the end of 4.0, we saw Elidibus reveal his face to Varis. Of course, we are all now assuming that this is Zenos, EXCEPT there is a bit of a snag there, Zenos' tomb hadn't been disturbed at this point (that happened sometime around 4.1, I suppose the Varis/Elidibus scene could have taken place around 4.1, but I don't think we've ever seen a previous patch overlap on another's time frame). So if Zenos' tomb hadn't been opened yet, who did Elidibus reveal himself as? Maybe Emperor Varis Zos Galvus?

We dont know when all that happened. The disturbing of the grave did not mean that it was opened. As far as I can remember the people just wrote stuff on his grave but did not necessarily open it.

I am not going to post the following under spoilers since its just speculation anyway.

@Remedi: Did he truly got scared? I kinda remember that it felt more like he was shocked and maybe a bit angry? So for me it makes sense that he was shocked because he had Zenos face. Also lets not forget that our new Garlean was surprised that we thought that Zenos was death, so he should have arrived at Garlemald quite fast after his death.

I am not saying that we cant be an avater (honestly I believe we are kinda directly a child of her, like created for her purpose thats why we are also not talking about any family) but Elidibus never looked like an Au Ra under that mask, his horns would have been seen at least a bit, the same with the scales. So he cant be like my character for example.

I also believe that the last words of the archbishop are more like "what beast are you to be able to defeat me and my knights with 1000 years of prayers?". It feels more like an enemy that cant believe that they have lost, then him seeing something strange in us. The blackness part was for me more that he was losing his sight thanks to him dying. (But thats just my speculation)

Originally Posted by Reynhart

That's exactly why I think that

Zenos has studied the Echo, so he shouldn't be that suprised to not be dead, which the character certainly seems so. And the hunt was Zenos' purpose in life which he gladly abandonned when he happily killed himself.
And Asahi is probably the guy who wishes to pursue Zenos' goal, or, in that case, hunt. Besides, it should be quite some time since Zenos died lorewise, so I don't understand why he should only realize now that he's not dead.

I think we're interpreting things differently. I also went back and checked the script for his exact words.

His actual lines:

...I have lost many things, but my mind is yet my own.
There upon the stage I stood, prepared to take my final bow, only to find that the finale was but an intermission...
Shall I use this chance to repent for my sins? Embrace goodness and mediocrity? Nay, I think not. While the one I yearn to face yet lives, the hunt must go on.

The framing it as a "performance" sounds much more like Zenos's willing death than Asahi's unexpected one. Also I never got any impression from this that Zenos was surprised to be dead, or had only recently come to the realisation.

My interpretation of it is that after "taking his final bow" he expected oblivion and instead found his soul still trapped in his now-dead body, but was later able to 'escape' and take over the unfortunate Resistance soldier, most likely someone tasked with handling the dead in the aftermath of the battle. So he's been lurking around for however long it's been since the liberation.

The question is, does Elidibus know that Zenos still exists, or is he a complete wildcard?

Also - as I've said in earlier discussions - whatever is going to happen with Zenos from here on, it has to be more interesting than simply defeating him again. There must be some kind of plot purpose for it.

I wonder if he might save us from another threat at some point? A "nobody gets to kill you except me" kind of thing.

Also possible that he *has* been doing a bit more soul-searching and feeling some regret for his past, if he feels he has to monologue about how he's not going to repent...

Originally Posted by Alleo

We dont know when all that happened. The disturbing of the grave did not mean that it was opened. As far as I can remember the people just wrote stuff on his grave but did not necessarily open it.

It's a specific plot point that they work out the grave must have been opened at the same point it was vandalised, but the external damage meant that nobody thought of checking to see if the grave itself had been disturbed.

Originally Posted by Reynhart

That's exactly why I think that

Zenos has studied the Echo, so he shouldn't be that suprised to not be dead, which the character certainly seems so. And the hunt was Zenos' purpose in life which he gladly abandonned when he happily killed himself.
And Asahi is probably the guy who wishes to pursue Zenos' goal, or, in that case, hunt. Besides, it should be quite some time since Zenos died lorewise, so I don't understand why he should only realize now that he's not dead.

I'm not sure I agree.

Zenos' data on the Echo comes from Gaius' reports and notes. The Scions et al. didn't discover the Echo allowed for someone to persist past death until like 2.2, really, when we see Elidibus' latest pet pawn in Wurr soulhop all around after being shot down by Merlwyb. At least, this is how I remember it, given that Through the Maelstrom was four real years ago it's possible my memory is betraying me. The point being that it feels like the Scions at large have learned more about the Echo since the 2.0 MSQ, which is when Gaius' notes should end.... and likewise that should be about the extent of Zenos' knowledge. It always felt likely to me that Aulus was spurred on by Elidibus or something in his work (I mean c'mon he jettisons our souls from our bodies, that's some really high tech stuff), and the whole "accidentally immortal" feels like a key point Elidibus would leave out.

TL;DR: It feels like Zenos' data should've been incomplete and his ignorance of the Echo transcending death feels somewhat fitting.

Originally Posted by Remedi

The second point is that our light is often commented by primals which is why it rises some questions to me, like it's something that will be revealed later. I mean the new primal saying I now see the extent of that baleful light of yours kinda fit with what other primals have said in the past, so it raises suspicion to our true essence

Well maybe he was more shocked that Eli dared to even take on Garlean royal blood and not necessarily that it was his son. But I do wonder who he was before that? Was it someone important or just a faceless NPC that nobody cared for?

Hm I think that light could be our blessing? Or maybe even the combination of the lights from our crystals. Minfilia does have a crystal around her neck which we are kinda missing so we are at least not some kind of vessel for something but who knows maybe we are in some way special to her.