An alternative to parsing?

[Pyro2hell3]

ff you ask me the problem isn't if are dps meters are useful tool the are the problem is people can't behave with them and they come with way to much bs drama and other baggage look at WoW its like dps meters the game at this point dps meter drama is yet other thing from WoW i don't miss

[KaivaC]

ff you ask me the problem isn't if are dps meters are useful tool the are the problem is people can't behave with them and they come with way to much bs drama and other baggage look at WoW its like dps meters the game at this point dps meter drama is yet other thing from WoW i don't miss

You have no idea how long I've been waiting to get into a thread with you. I have a super important question to ask you.

What is that signature? I have been so curious about it for months. Who is that?

[Awha]

You have no idea how long I've been waiting to get into a thread with you. I have a super important question to ask you.

What is that signature? I have been so curious about it for months. Who is that?

Think it is Kurumi Tokisaki from Date A Live.

[ElHeggunte]

ff you ask me the problem isn't if are dps meters are useful tool the are the problem is people can't behave with them and they come with way to much bs drama and other baggage look at WoW its like dps meters the game at this point dps meter drama is yet other thing from WoW i don't miss

Except harassment from parsers is exceedingly rare considering the amount of people who actually use them (both here and in other games with it like WoW). Even in Warcraft where parsers are 100% street legal and the vast majority of the playerbase runs one, DPS call-outs aren't very common unless there was a wipe to something DPS related (like enrage or adds) or someone is doing such low DPS or healing that they're obviously asleep at the wheel. I'm not sure why people are so afraid of parsers. If the prospect of being "harassed" is too much to bear, how about not giving them a reason to single you out in the first place (read: stop limp-wristing) instead trying to hide behind Square's leg while continuing to lead-shoe your party.

[RiyahArp]

You know, if this were a game where people generally were ok with people failing or being not ideal in content because we all were in it for the long haul, parsing would be less an issue. But i have people leave hard mode trials if they wipe once, and people in this game are really quick to get annoyed despite this game's endgame having the most forgiving time burden and being the most accessible out of many MMOs. I don't really trust the community to make good use of it, because they don't have the right mindset. It becomes more on others than themselves.

It's the same reason I'm not keen on hard casual content. There's way too much being annoyed at others or griping about how others are carried or are burdens for me to think parsing is going to be ok in this culture.

[KaivaC]

You know, if this were a game where people generally were ok with people failing or being not ideal in content because we all were in it for the long haul, parsing would be less an issue. But i have people leave hard mode trials if they wipe once, and people in this game are really quick to get annoyed despite this game's endgame having the most forgiving time burden and being the most accessible out of many MMOs. I don't really trust the community to make good use of it, because they don't have the right mindset. It becomes more on others than themselves.

Perhaps, but I think it's pretty accurate to say that this is more on individual players themselves than anything. It would be one thing if it was Steps of Faith (because really, who wants to wait a whole 9 minutes to be able to reset the fight). Now, other fights, individuals are just ridiculously impatient and are quick to leave after one wipe. For those types of players, I don't see how a solution to the parser issue would affect them. If they're impatient enough to quit after one wipe, they are likely not the type of players who are seeking improvement, you know? For the most part. Some may just not have time to go for another run that could potentially lead to a wipe. Not an excuse for them, but it is possible

[KaldeaSahaline]

That is your POV though, as I said, for many people, a clear is a clear, no matter how sloppy it was.

I'm not arguing that, nor do I disagree with that statement. What I said was that if the entire party played at your level, you would have failed the duty. That means you failed equivalency. That is not an opinion or a POV. That is a mathematical fact.

To me, "carried" means, like you said, dude pays you guys and then sits in a corner watching you people kill the boss.

I think I mostly died on those thunder blows you had to share - if I failed that mech, and let a dps take the blow, there wouldve been no clear also.

You did fail that mech. You didn't use a cooldown and died. Passage of Arms isn't sufficient to block Twin Bolt at progression levels without extraordinarily well coordinated external CDs.

I said this above, did you not see/read it? There are varying degrees of getting carried. You obviously got carried less than someone who bought a kill. No one will deny that.

You'll sometimes see some world/server first kills that are really sloppy, with people making mistakes and dying, even sometimes a clear with a healer lb3 in it. Would you still consider the lesser players from those groups as being carried for their world first ? Would those teams kick the lower dps from their roster after each kill ?
A kill is a team work.

Correct. Your team did extra work to ensure that the kill still happened.

Your world first analogy is irrelevant to this discussion.

Do you understand the concept of equivalency? I explained it above, but did you miss it or not understand it?

tl;dr, : I think the term "carried" isn't constructive in a "I want to get better" thread

Again, this goes back to my original point. Remove your feelings from the equation and look a this objectively. You can sugarcoat it and use whatever word you want, but the premise still exists regardless.

ff you ask me the problem isn't if are dps meters are useful tool the are the problem is people can't behave with them and they come with way to much bs drama and other baggage look at WoW its like dps meters the game at this point dps meter drama is yet other thing from WoW i don't miss

Funny - I encountered this issue less than a handful of times in over 10+ years of playing WoW.

[F_Maximillian]

I'm not arguing that, nor do I disagree with that statement. What I said was that if the entire party played at your level, you would have failed the duty. That means you failed equivalency. That is not an opinion or a POV. That is a mathematical fact.

Honestly this is the standard that I judge myself by. I think expecting anything less of myself is basically expecting too much of others. If I knew I was playing at a level that would lead to failure if the entire party was on that level and didn't bother to do anything about it then that goes with the assumption that I would expect everyone else to play better to compensate. I don't think this is a particularly unreasonable mindset at all although it makes quite a few people in the community uncomfortable.

[Liam_Harper]

ff you ask me the problem isn't if are dps meters are useful tool the are the problem is people can't behave with them and they come with way to much bs drama and other baggage look at WoW its like dps meters the game at this point dps meter drama is yet other thing from WoW i don't miss

To be fair, I've encountered this more in FF14 than WoW.

Tank dps being such a high priority that you turn off tank stance at any time you can possibly manage it. Healers being expected to squeeze every last bit of dps on top of keeping the entire party alive. Comments on "this class should do 6k, 7k whatever" in this trial.

In WoW tank/healer dps contributes in the same way to overall raid dps, but if you post a thread saying "our tank wasn't in dps set up so he sucked" you'd get flamed off their forum and told "tanks are meant to tank". Healers are fine not even doing dps. Yet in the hardest content they can and do still contribute. FF has a dps is everything mentality that the game itself seems designed around that I haven't seen in other games.

[Sebazy]

<snip>

This really is by design in FFXIV. Be it a deliberate thing or via poor development decisions.

Tanks can either generate excessive enmity, over mitigate stuff or DPS whereas a well played healer will always try to maximise their value from free and instant burst oGCDs and other high efficiency sources of healing such as Regen and the Fairy. This also leaves them with a lot of GCDs to either twiddle their thumbs or uh, DPS =(

IMHO the best way for SE to counter this would be to add more variety to the combos than just hate vs damage whilst also adding some depth to healers either via party buff or resource regeneration combos and such. Adding mitigation combos to tanks could perhaps be a decent stepping stone towards a more action mmorpg style that many hanker for.