An alternative to parsing?

[KaivaC]

You know, if this were a game where people generally were ok with people failing or being not ideal in content because we all were in it for the long haul, parsing would be less an issue. But i have people leave hard mode trials if they wipe once, and people in this game are really quick to get annoyed despite this game's endgame having the most forgiving time burden and being the most accessible out of many MMOs. I don't really trust the community to make good use of it, because they don't have the right mindset. It becomes more on others than themselves.

Perhaps, but I think it's pretty accurate to say that this is more on individual players themselves than anything. It would be one thing if it was Steps of Faith (because really, who wants to wait a whole 9 minutes to be able to reset the fight). Now, other fights, individuals are just ridiculously impatient and are quick to leave after one wipe. For those types of players, I don't see how a solution to the parser issue would affect them. If they're impatient enough to quit after one wipe, they are likely not the type of players who are seeking improvement, you know? For the most part. Some may just not have time to go for another run that could potentially lead to a wipe. Not an excuse for them, but it is possible

[KaldeaSahaline]

That is your POV though, as I said, for many people, a clear is a clear, no matter how sloppy it was.

I'm not arguing that, nor do I disagree with that statement. What I said was that if the entire party played at your level, you would have failed the duty. That means you failed equivalency. That is not an opinion or a POV. That is a mathematical fact.

To me, "carried" means, like you said, dude pays you guys and then sits in a corner watching you people kill the boss.

I think I mostly died on those thunder blows you had to share - if I failed that mech, and let a dps take the blow, there wouldve been no clear also.

You did fail that mech. You didn't use a cooldown and died. Passage of Arms isn't sufficient to block Twin Bolt at progression levels without extraordinarily well coordinated external CDs.

I said this above, did you not see/read it? There are varying degrees of getting carried. You obviously got carried less than someone who bought a kill. No one will deny that.

You'll sometimes see some world/server first kills that are really sloppy, with people making mistakes and dying, even sometimes a clear with a healer lb3 in it. Would you still consider the lesser players from those groups as being carried for their world first ? Would those teams kick the lower dps from their roster after each kill ?
A kill is a team work.

Correct. Your team did extra work to ensure that the kill still happened.

Your world first analogy is irrelevant to this discussion.

Do you understand the concept of equivalency? I explained it above, but did you miss it or not understand it?

tl;dr, : I think the term "carried" isn't constructive in a "I want to get better" thread

Again, this goes back to my original point. Remove your feelings from the equation and look a this objectively. You can sugarcoat it and use whatever word you want, but the premise still exists regardless.

ff you ask me the problem isn't if are dps meters are useful tool the are the problem is people can't behave with them and they come with way to much bs drama and other baggage look at WoW its like dps meters the game at this point dps meter drama is yet other thing from WoW i don't miss

Funny - I encountered this issue less than a handful of times in over 10+ years of playing WoW.

[F_Maximillian]

I'm not arguing that, nor do I disagree with that statement. What I said was that if the entire party played at your level, you would have failed the duty. That means you failed equivalency. That is not an opinion or a POV. That is a mathematical fact.

Honestly this is the standard that I judge myself by. I think expecting anything less of myself is basically expecting too much of others. If I knew I was playing at a level that would lead to failure if the entire party was on that level and didn't bother to do anything about it then that goes with the assumption that I would expect everyone else to play better to compensate. I don't think this is a particularly unreasonable mindset at all although it makes quite a few people in the community uncomfortable.