An alternative to parsing?

[KaivaC]

snip

This isn't a defeatist attitude. I'm just being realistic about myself. But while I'm not being emotional about this, I can see how some may think there's some emotions behind what I'm saying. You're right, I brought my own experience into this, and that was a mistake. It threw this whole thread completely off-topic. So let's get back to it.

Another reason I think this would help players, now that I think about is, is because there are a lot of other players out there who either don't have the right FC, or a good group of friends (or friend) that could sit down and help them improve. Granted, the raiding community is small compared to the overall player base, but there are some out there who could use some in-game help that gives them active feedback on their performance. Riyah made a mention of a grading system a while back. It could be subjective, depending on how the devs overtune it, but I could see a grading system having some effect if its paired with something meant for training and improvement purposes. Obviously, grading wouldn't really matter much in dungeons and raids. But who knows, could attach a new title to this. It could fall in line, story-wise, with the WoL inspiring other adventurers to follow in their footsteps, and the training thingy could be utilized in the context of the WoL testing it before it is sold.

[Pyro2hell3]

ff you ask me the problem isn't if are dps meters are useful tool the are the problem is people can't behave with them and they come with way to much bs drama and other baggage look at WoW its like dps meters the game at this point dps meter drama is yet other thing from WoW i don't miss

[KaivaC]

ff you ask me the problem isn't if are dps meters are useful tool the are the problem is people can't behave with them and they come with way to much bs drama and other baggage look at WoW its like dps meters the game at this point dps meter drama is yet other thing from WoW i don't miss

You have no idea how long I've been waiting to get into a thread with you. I have a super important question to ask you.

What is that signature? I have been so curious about it for months. Who is that?

[Awha]

You have no idea how long I've been waiting to get into a thread with you. I have a super important question to ask you.

What is that signature? I have been so curious about it for months. Who is that?

Think it is Kurumi Tokisaki from Date A Live.

[ElHeggunte]

ff you ask me the problem isn't if are dps meters are useful tool the are the problem is people can't behave with them and they come with way to much bs drama and other baggage look at WoW its like dps meters the game at this point dps meter drama is yet other thing from WoW i don't miss

Except harassment from parsers is exceedingly rare considering the amount of people who actually use them (both here and in other games with it like WoW). Even in Warcraft where parsers are 100% street legal and the vast majority of the playerbase runs one, DPS call-outs aren't very common unless there was a wipe to something DPS related (like enrage or adds) or someone is doing such low DPS or healing that they're obviously asleep at the wheel. I'm not sure why people are so afraid of parsers. If the prospect of being "harassed" is too much to bear, how about not giving them a reason to single you out in the first place (read: stop limp-wristing) instead trying to hide behind Square's leg while continuing to lead-shoe your party.

[Liam_Harper]

ff you ask me the problem isn't if are dps meters are useful tool the are the problem is people can't behave with them and they come with way to much bs drama and other baggage look at WoW its like dps meters the game at this point dps meter drama is yet other thing from WoW i don't miss

To be fair, I've encountered this more in FF14 than WoW.

Tank dps being such a high priority that you turn off tank stance at any time you can possibly manage it. Healers being expected to squeeze every last bit of dps on top of keeping the entire party alive. Comments on "this class should do 6k, 7k whatever" in this trial.

In WoW tank/healer dps contributes in the same way to overall raid dps, but if you post a thread saying "our tank wasn't in dps set up so he sucked" you'd get flamed off their forum and told "tanks are meant to tank". Healers are fine not even doing dps. Yet in the hardest content they can and do still contribute. FF has a dps is everything mentality that the game itself seems designed around that I haven't seen in other games.

[Sebazy]

<snip>

This really is by design in FFXIV. Be it a deliberate thing or via poor development decisions.

Tanks can either generate excessive enmity, over mitigate stuff or DPS whereas a well played healer will always try to maximise their value from free and instant burst oGCDs and other high efficiency sources of healing such as Regen and the Fairy. This also leaves them with a lot of GCDs to either twiddle their thumbs or uh, DPS =(

IMHO the best way for SE to counter this would be to add more variety to the combos than just hate vs damage whilst also adding some depth to healers either via party buff or resource regeneration combos and such. Adding mitigation combos to tanks could perhaps be a decent stepping stone towards a more action mmorpg style that many hanker for.

[AxlStream]

IMHO the best way for SE to counter this would be to add more variety to the combos than just hate vs damage whilst also adding some depth to healers either via party buff or resource regeneration combos and such. Adding mitigation combos to tanks could perhaps be a decent stepping stone towards a more action mmorpg style that many hanker for.

Warrior had a mitigation combo but it was removed for StormBlood (so did PLD and DRK in a way). So it's safe to say that is not in their current design plans.

[Shurrikhan]

To be fair, I've encountered this more in FF14 than WoW.

Tank dps being such a high priority that you turn off tank stance at any time you can possibly manage it. Healers being expected to squeeze every last bit of dps on top of keeping the entire party alive. Comments on "this class should do 6k, 7k whatever" in this trial.

In WoW tank/healer dps contributes in the same way to overall raid dps, but if you post a thread saying "our tank wasn't in dps set up so he sucked" you'd get flamed off their forum and told "tanks are meant to tank". Healers are fine not even doing dps. Yet in the hardest content they can and do still contribute. FF has a dps is everything mentality that the game itself seems designed around that I haven't seen in other games.

The opinion among any but the most casual players in WoW is pretty well identical to XIV's: "Contribute as effectively as possible" with a softer, shorter benchmark of "Always be doing something." If there's nothing to heal, DPS. If pre-healing (HoTing/shielding) allows someone more DPS in later than you can manage right now, then do that instead.

As a tank in WoW, you are expected to push out the your DPS; the range is just incredibly small compared to XIV's as there are no enmity combos nor any tank stance, such that pushing out the DPS comes down to very basic rotational adjustments, talent setups, and class choice more than any risk-reward calculation. And because damage tends to be more intensive, and the single-target tank-to-DPS dps gap much larger, in WoW than XIV, that DPS setup isn't always actually the most rDPS effective.

And yes, in WoW as well DPS are supposed to avoid avoidable damage if it not doing so would slow the clear, and are supposed to ignore negligible damage sources if avoiding them would slow the clear-- not just because "it's faster", but because that's safer in the long term at all but the most casual levels of play -- even if the vocal minority may tell you otherwise.

The "you don't pay my sub!" folks are just as loud on the WoW forums as here, even if an even smaller actual portion of their playerbase than XIV's.