Black magic...kinda sucks

[kidalutz]

Huh wha Sorry was falling asleep while casting my blm rotation so slow so very very slow.

[EllieShadeflare]

Again by that logic we shouldn't have reviews, commentators, or critics who were not first top of the line in whatever they are talking about. That obviously is not the case, and therefore YES you can judge something if you have an actual understanding of it without being a top tier player fist.

You're making complaints about dungeons (particularly, LEVELING dungeons),, something that most players in the game consider to be the bare minimum of content, and haven't shown the least bit of evidence of your proficiency. Certainly, proficiency isn't a requirement for having opinions of any quality but most people will question your legitimacy if you have proven to not know what you're talking about.

(See: the Cuphead controversy, or when Polygon played Doom 2016. The absolutely terrible gameplay provided by Polygon called into question many of their other reviews (including Starfox Zero) because of just how bad they played.)

Um...ships, tanks, and whatever else a turret can be MOUNTED on let alone fired while on the move? Or do all those things need to stop for the turret to be used? In fact here is proof positive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF3iRvDzF_w

So your point about turrets having to be stationary was what again? Because while I am all for rewarding staying stationary, it doesn't mean that the job shouldn't be able to move when necessary to avoid mechanics.

...you... do realize that the turret itself doesn't move (beyond rotation), even though it's mounted on a plane, ship, tank, dinosaur or whatever... right...? You shot yourself in the foot with this point to get a "gotcha!"

In either case, the "turret" gameplay refers to the idea of "moving as little as possible to maximize damage". That's it. All of our attacks are on the GCD, we have abilities designed to counteract direct movement (whether it be our teleports which are getting improved animation locks or Manaward and its GLORIOUS 35% Max HP damage shield) and we can still slidecast in emergencies.

Which is a trap, because no matter HOW I pointed it out, people would have accused me of making an issue over my gender. So I let it go until finally the frustration got the better of me over having to repeat myself. Which is funny, since as much you say I was playing a victim...the tone of responding posts HAS shifted since I stated I was a woman. Imagine that.

You have made statements where you directly correlate disagreement with you with misogyny and harassment. Like, literally, you have shifted the tone of many of your dissenting posts from simply "people don't understand where I'm coming from!" to "you guys are misogynists!"

Nobody made it a big deal that you're pulling a "victim card" until you started to say things like "shouting down the dissenter until they go away!" "nobody on the internet ever argues reasonably!" "you guys are gonna say something like go back to the kitchen!"

I mean, no offense... but it seems like you almost don't think through the things you type.

[Mahrze]

"you guys are gonna say something like go back to the kitchen!"

I mean, no offense... but it seems like you almost don't think through the things you type.

That last one in full context is not a victim card.

Sounds to me that the detractors in this thread can't be bothered to argue why the job is fine as it is when better options exist. But hey, I'm on the internet so I guess it's my fault for thinking people actually try to use logic to convince each other...I keep forgetting the preferred method is shout the other person down as a group, make them a strawman, and put intent and words in front of what they actually are saying. Silly me, guess I better get going before someone tells me to get back in the kitchen or some other stupid shit next.

Using the gender card as sarcasm isn't playing the victim. A bit snide, yeah but hey, its fallen to an ad hominem thread at this point so don't mind me. I'll go grab my popcorn.

[Malkria]

Except that reviewers, commentators and critics typically DO have quite an extensive background in whatever field they are operating in and generally only give HIGH level opinions like: "Black Mage is not fun to play" not "Black Mage sucks, here are the specifics why, and this is the only way to fix it". So NO. Your point does not hold logic.

So first of all, where did I say "this is the only way to fix it"? Second, you yourself just said that people who have extensive background in the field...but the thing is not everyone does. Roger and Ebert being one of the earliest examples I can think of, who became film critics at first because they were told to be. Other popular reviewers just doing it without an extensive background in reviewing games, who now run popular channels on youtube. So if there is a fallacy of logic here, it's on you.

The TURRET is not mobile, it is mounted on a mobile object. The TURRET cannot go ANYWHERE without the object it is mounted on, hence it is an fixed position, immobile piece of equipment. EXACTLY what mobile object is a Black Mage (aka TURRET) mounted on? SO to clarify my point on Turrets is that they are stationary damage weapons. I can guarantee you that if you were in a fire-fight and told someone to go get you the Turret, you'd get the biggest "are you an idiot" look ever.

Well for one in terms of the game it's mounted on legs, second then that negates that BLM should be able to cast on the move with the much vaunted swift and triple-cast abilities, third setting up your gun on in a turret fashion on the field grats better accuracy and cover but doesn't keep you from booking out should the need arrive (such as the arrival of a much bigger gun like a tank). Plus the whole point of putting a turret on a mobile base is so that it HAS the mobility to move out of harms way...again, just like what I am saying the BLM should be able to do. So your logic falls flat, again.

You're making complaints about dungeons (particularly, LEVELING dungeons),, something that most players in the game consider to be the bare minimum of content, and haven't shown the least bit of evidence of your proficiency.

Complaints...so citing EXAMPLES is now a form of complaining? Wow...I honestly have nothing I can say to that without breaking rules. As for showing proficiency, in what form do you want it? Logs? As in the logs that are against ToS and/or the rules to demand or harass another player about? Those logs?

...you... do realize that the turret itself doesn't move (beyond rotation), even though it's mounted on a plane, ship, tank, dinosaur or whatever... right...? You shot yourself in the foot with this point to get a "gotcha!"

Well I suppose you could argue that all things are relative to each other and that from a certain point of view mounting a turret on a ship means it doesn't move...but most people would agree that a turret moves when the object it is attached to moves. Most people would also agree that this is done so that the firepower the turret brings has better mobility so it can be moved as necessary to both maximize it's effectiveness and keep it out of danger from returning fire. But I suppose there is always room for more...unique viewpoints.

Nobody made it a big deal that you're pulling a "victim card" until you started to say things like "shouting down the dissenter until they go away!" "nobody on the internet ever argues reasonably!" "you guys are gonna say something like go back to the kitchen!"

Oh really...so by constantly stating my opinion didn't matter because I didn't understand the "nuances" of the job, by having my intentions and thoughts dictated to me, and constantly being told to just go somewhere else what does that say about the community? The only reason you claim I am a SJW is because I pointed out you were talking to a woman like that, and if I were a guy who pointed it out the response would have been either to 'man up' or 'get a thicker skin'. That alone says more about you, and the community, then it does about me waiting three days after trying to explain my viewpoint patiently before revealing I was a woman in both a snide and frustrated way. Also using the "guys" in quotes wasn't code for misogynists...it was so I didn't break the rules and use more colorful language.

[EllieShadeflare]

That last one in full context is not a victim card.

Using the gender card as sarcasm isn't playing the victim.

It still lines up with her using her gender as an excuse for why people disagree with her, albeit indirectly. Also an ad hominem in a sense, but still incredibly dishonest.

[MoroMurasaki]

Which is a trap, because no matter HOW I pointed it out, people would have accused me of making an issue over my gender. So I let it go until finally the frustration got the better of me over having to repeat myself. Which is funny, since as much you say I was playing a victim...the tone of responding posts HAS shifted since I stated I was a woman. Imagine that.

I have pointed out my gender on these forums multiple times and in plenty of other online and gaming situations.

I've never been accused of this sort of victim mentality because I don't make the issue about being a woman I make it about the topic at hand with an annotation of "btw girl here".

You might be better received on your points about blm if you weren't taking up such an Sarkeesian-esque approach to interaction with your fellow forum-goers & gamers. Not saying that you want it but when you act like this and like people are being sexist towards you when they aren't people don't consider your other points because they already see you being wrong about this supposed sexism and judge your intellect based on that.

Hope it helps. Good luck on BLM \o/

[KaivaC]

snip

Oh but Moro, the victim mentality is strong here. I am apparently a hypocrite myself for pointing some things out and even offering suggestions.

[EllieShadeflare]

So first of all, where did I say "this is the only way to fix it"? Second, you yourself just said that people who have extensive background in the field...but the thing is not everyone does. Roger Gene Siskel and Roger Ebert being one of the earliest examples I can think of, who became film critics at first because they were told to be. Other popular reviewers just doing it without an extensive background in reviewing games, who now run popular channels on youtube. So if there is a fallacy of logic here, it's on you.

First off, how DARE YOU for failing so miserably at providing an example, that you used the same person TWICE (may Siskel and Ebert rest in peace). Second off, while I'm not sure that Siskel had experience in film or criticism (beyond a review for the movie Rascal) before Siskel and Ebert first teamed up on television in 1975, Ebert at least gained an understanding of film and critque through Mad Magazine.

I learned to be a movie critic by reading Mad magazine … Mad's parodies made me aware of the machine inside the skin—of the way a movie might look original on the outside, while inside it was just recycling the same old dumb formulas. I did not read the magazine, I plundered it for clues to the universe. Pauline Kael lost it at the movies; I lost it at Mad magazine

Meanwhile, most game reviewers tend to have both experience with the games they play and have experience gaming in general. Again, do I have to point out the Polygon Doom video, how badly they played and how they got utterly lambasted, or do I have to point out the Cuphead controversy?

Well for one in terms of the game it's mounted on legs, second then that negates that BLM should be able to cast on the move with the much vaunted swift and triple-cast abilities, third setting up your gun on in a turret fashion on the field grats better accuracy and cover but doesn't keep you from booking out should the need arrive (such as the arrival of a much bigger gun like a tank). Plus the whole point of putting a turret on a mobile base is so that it HAS the mobility to move out of harms way...again, just like what I am saying the BLM should be able to do. So your logic falls flat, again.

The concept of a turret for the sake of gameplay has nothing to do with the concept of a turret in real life. Do you not understand metaphors or something?

[Remyogic]

So first of all, where did I say "this is the only way to fix it"? Second, you yourself just said that people who have extensive background in the field...but the thing is not everyone does. Roger and Ebert being one of the earliest examples I can think of, who became film critics at first because they were told to be.

Roger AND Ebert? "CRITICS" "THEY" LOL......it's ROGER EBERT. ONE PERSON. Great argument from a stance of knowledge.........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Ebert

Read his bio, I'd say he had quite an extensive grasp on entertainment, writing proficiency, and storytelling. You shot yourself in the foot with this one.

Other popular reviewers just doing it without an extensive background in reviewing games, who now run popular channels on youtube. So if there is a fallacy of logic here, it's on you.

This is a joke right? Sighting Youtube as the basis for any argument is laughable.

Well for one in terms of the game it's mounted on legs, second then that negates that BLM should be able to cast on the move with the much vaunted swift and triple-cast abilities, third setting up your gun on in a turret fashion on the field grats better accuracy and cover but doesn't keep you from booking out should the need arrive (such as the arrival of a much bigger gun like a tank). Plus the whole point of putting a turret on a mobile base is so that it HAS the mobility to move out of harms way...again, just like what I am saying the BLM should be able to do. So your logic falls flat, again.

Mounted on legs? REALLY?!?!?!

"Setting up your gun in a turret fashion" - Dropping the tripod stabilizers on a machine gun is NOWHERE near this analogy. The statement is just blind.

BTW -> Putting a turret on a mobile base is so that you can move your firepower INTO harms way and do the most damage. That's the reason turrets are most commonly found on ARMORED vehicles. Whose point is falling flat?

[Zerathor]

So what you are trying to say is that unless I am topping the charts with whatever parser then apparently I am not 'proficient' and thus can't judge the job or any of it's issues?

Yes. For blm to not top the damage, it means you do not know the job. How can you judge what you do not know properly? Nobody would take that seriously.

Despite the fact that A) pasrsers are against the game's ToS,

False, you just can't kick bad players for being bad dps. Even devs parse. This stuff is all pretty common knowledge.

B) that isn't true.

True, if they are actually performing properly. 99% of the time with zero feed back however, they are not. unless they have friends who assist them with data. Unless you meant the ability to judge how a job you don't know works, in which case, see point one.