Black magic...kinda sucks

[KaivaC]

This all sounds like the OP doesn't get the basis of the job - just reading through this thread, they've been given some sound advice on how to deal with the mobility issue (as lack of mobility being traded for raw dps is kinda the identity of BLMs) and they start getting incredibly defensive over it and rejecting the idea of it. Doesn't like like a job for the OP is they cannot deal with the concept that has helped every good BLM from ARR to SB - knowing the fight well enough to know when's a good time to do certain things. I saw a post mentioned about how other DPS have an advantage - but that's not true. The ones with the advantage are the players who know how to perform their jobs with the least drawbacks.

OP, if you're having issues with mobility, just look up a guide as you continue leveling. BLMs are top-tier damage dealers without all the complication that a job like SMN brings to the table.

[Malkria]

Also SMN got less votes than BLM in that poll too. Contradicting to what OP have been asserting ...

Good find! I didn't notice that.

I spent a while bebating if I should point this out to two people so proud of themselves and patting themselves on the back, but yeah it needs pointing out. First off, this is a popularity vote which in turn is EXACTLY my point that BLM isn't as popular as other jobs. Second, while summoner went down...ALL the jobs went down. There were three new jobs in all three roles, so of course there would be a decrease so that isn't as important as by how much. BLM dropped 42% in that poll, and SMN only dropped 23% in people wanting to stay with the same job as a MAIN. Context is everything guys.

I think the issue most people have with your suggestions, other than them addressing things that aren't problems, is that you imply that the job should be more like SMN.

Now who is putting forth logical fallacy? Just because I have an issue with the mobility does NOT mean I want it to be as mobile as the SMN. A very simple way to promote a turret playstyle is to grant buffs as you stay in a place and remove it as you move. Meaning a play style where essentially as you cast you get the effect of ley lines that gets stronger as you stay put and weaker as you move...would be a very natural gameplay mechanic that would 100% promote turret playstyle without locking you into timers with cast time and the keeping up your orbs; but at the same time allowing more flexibility of movement as needed WHEN needed. Like I said there have been many games that promote turret style gameplay, and I have played many of them...this game does NOT do it well. Functional yes, but not in a way that makes the job as natural feeling as many of the other jobs...and yes some other jobs have issues with this as well

This all sounds like the OP doesn't get the basis of the job - just reading through this thread, they've been given some sound advice on how to deal with the mobility issue (as lack of mobility being traded for raw dps is kinda the identity of BLMs) and they start getting incredibly defensive over it and rejecting the idea of it. Doesn't like like a job for the OP is they cannot deal with the concept that has helped every good BLM from ARR to SB - knowing the fight well enough to know when's a good time to do certain things. I saw a post mentioned about how other DPS have an advantage - but that's not true. The ones with the advantage are the players who know how to perform their jobs with the least drawbacks.

OP, if you're having issues with mobility, just look up a guide as you continue leveling. BLMs are top-tier damage dealers without all the complication that a job like SMN brings to the table.

Knowing how to make a job functional is NOT the same thing as having things like mobility. Moving during GCD is yes an option...but it isn't actual mobility it's simply moving in stutters during GCD. True mobility is being able to move AS NEEDED WHEN NEEDED without losing to much momentum of the job, which is the core mechanic of this job...keeping momentum up. Knowing the fight, and all of that, is mearly another way of stating the obvious in that the job is meant to be played full momentum and the DPS is built around that. But as I just wrote in response above, you can have that while still allowing actual mobility to be a thing of the job while at the same time keeping to a turret playstyle. It isn't really that hard, and hell I came up with that AS I TYPED IT.

So yes, I understand there are ways to make the job work around the way it is build...that was never my point. My point is that the job just doesn't mesh well as it is built with the way the game is built. BLM would be perfectly fine in a game like WoW where movement isn't really a thing. But in FF14...not so much; and while knowlage does factor into it that doesn't excuse the basic fact that the design simply does not mesh well with the game design. Which even when 'dumbed down' as it is now anyone with basic familiarity with game design could tell you.

[Popotato]

I spent a while bebating if I should point this out to two people so proud of themselves and patting themselves on the back, but yeah it needs pointing out. First off, this is a popularity vote which in turn is EXACTLY my point that BLM isn't as popular as other jobs. Second, while summoner went down...ALL the jobs went down. There were three new jobs in all three roles, so of course there would be a decrease so that isn't as important as by how much. BLM dropped 42% in that poll, and SMN only dropped 23% in people wanting to stay with the same job as a MAIN. Context is everything guys.

Throwing in basic percentages doesn't change the fact that it's an outdated poll with a meagre sample space. Additionally, the gameplay difference between 2.x BLM and 3.x BLM is much more different than the difference between 3.x BLM and 4.x BLM. It went from a mid damage proc based mage to a heavy sustained damage mage. I'd recommend looking at FFlogs for more reliable statistics.

Now who is putting forth logical fallacy? Just because I have an issue with the mobility does NOT mean I want it to be as mobile as the SMN. A very simple way to promote a turret playstyle is to grant buffs as you stay in a place and remove it as you move. Meaning a play style where essentially as you cast you get the effect of ley lines that gets stronger as you stay put and weaker as you move...would be a very natural gameplay mechanic that would 100% promote turret playstyle without locking you into timers with cast time and the keeping up your orbs; but at the same time allowing more flexibility of movement as needed WHEN needed. Like I said there have been many games that promote turret style gameplay, and I have played many of them...this game does NOT do it well. Functional yes, but not in a way that makes the job as natural feeling as many of the other jobs...and yes some other jobs have issues with this as well

Firstly you don't know what a logical fallacy is.

Secondly, the suggestion that you put forth is the definition of purely functional without considering fun. I'd like to preface this by saying that if you don't think the current Ley Lines is fun, that's fine, but understand you would likely be in the minority with that opinion. The current Ley Lines creates a change in the gameplay, unlike your proposed suggestion. Firstly, you need to consider the best times to use Ley Lines, and where the best location is during that time. Additionally, BLM players find it fun to squeeze out every single bit of value Ley Lines gives. Skill and greed correlate in this game, and running around in the circle during mechanics, to most people, is fun because it's risky and is a demonstration of skill. You could do the mechanic normally and safely, OR you could do the mechanic while sitting in Ley Lines the entire time to get that extra boost to your DPS.

Your suggestion is literally what BLM is right now, minus the micromanagement. BLM are already standing still because all of their primary sources of damage have a cast time. Adding a buff when standing still is just adding power to the current same gameplay style without enhancing the experience. When you cast Ley Lines, the BLM gameplay changes dramatically. You can't stand anywhere anymore, you stand only in your Ley Lines. Furthermore, Ley Lines has wiggle room, and that wiggle room is what makes it fun and interesting. Your suggestion encourages zero movement, and there is a huge negative reception towards abilities where you can't move at all (See Ten Chi Jin and Flamethrower). Additionally, a constant stream of power is less fun than a burst of high power. BLM look forward to being able to cast Ley Lines again, and when they do, the extra burst of power they get translates to satisfaction.

Your suggestion is no doubt stronger, but it is less fun. Your suggestion epitomises function over fun, something you've been completely against. I think all we can really do is agree to disagree. You think this suggestion, with the removal of the timer and a self-buff, will be more fun. No one else does. We can't do anything but come to terms with the differing opinions.

Knowing how to make a job functional is NOT the same thing as having things like mobility. Moving during GCD is yes an option...but it isn't actual mobility it's simply moving in stutters during GCD. True mobility is being able to move AS NEEDED WHEN NEEDED without losing to much momentum of the job, which is the core mechanic of this job...keeping momentum up. Knowing the fight, and all of that, is mearly another way of stating the obvious in that the job is meant to be played full momentum and the DPS is built around that. But as I just wrote in response above, you can have that while still allowing actual mobility to be a thing of the job while at the same time keeping to a turret playstyle. It isn't really that hard, and hell I came up with that AS I TYPED IT.

So yes, I understand there are ways to make the job work around the way it is build...that was never my point. My point is that the job just doesn't mesh well as it is built with the way the game is built. BLM would be perfectly fine in a game like WoW where movement isn't really a thing. But in FF14...not so much; and while knowlage does factor into it that doesn't excuse the basic fact that the design simply does not mesh well with the game design. Which even when 'dumbed down' as it is now anyone with basic familiarity with game design could tell you.

The fact that you can't keep momentum with BLM when it has all the tools it needs to keep momentum, even in high end fights like O8S once again highlights your inexperience with the job. Furthermore, the solution you posted above ruins two mechanics that BLM players find to be core to to BLM's fun.

Wanting to stand as still as possible in a game with relatively movement heavy fights is the complexity of the job, not a fault of the job. This has been reiterated countless times to you already. BLM's kit lacks in complexity within the spells mechanics itself, but the demonstration of skill and the fun of the job comes with the implication of these skills. You're trying to take away what BLM players find fun in the job so it can align better with your personal idea of fun. There already are jobs that implement your ideal BLM's playstyle, so don't try to homogenise these job identities.

[Dualgunner]

I spent a while bebating if I should point this out to two people so proud of themselves and patting themselves on the back, but yeah it needs pointing out. First off, this is a popularity vote which in turn is EXACTLY my point that BLM isn't as popular as other jobs. Second, while summoner went down...ALL the jobs went down. There were three new jobs in all three roles, so of course there would be a decrease so that isn't as important as by how much. BLM dropped 42% in that poll, and SMN only dropped 23% in people wanting to stay with the same job as a MAIN. Context is everything guys.

Your "popularity poll" has a total of ~2700, and the poll was regarding "What *will* be your main" (before knowledge of FFXIV 3.x jobs will be like) versus "What is your main?" 2700 responses when every person has two votes means you had a turnout of about 1400 individual people. The poll is also over three years old since it predates Heavensward, which need I remind you, is before people would actually know what Enochian would really be and how it would feel. I contend that your "popularity poll" then, has no relevance, both due to age and due to statistical insignificance when compared to the playerbase as a whole.

[Rongway]

True mobility is being able to move AS NEEDED WHEN NEEDED

BLM can move when needed. If you can't move when you need to, you're doing it wrong.

Aetherial Manipulation lets you teleport to a friend every ten seconds. Between The Lines lets you teleport back to your Ley Lines whenever you want. Thundercloud and Firestarter reduce your cast times to 0s and can be forced to proc. Between Sharpcast, Swiftcast, and Triplecast, you are guaranteed five instant spells per minute. This adds up to about 20% of your time in combat. It's your responsibility to make sure that this 20% of combat lines up with the times you need to move.

If you don't want this responsibility, play a different job.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I spent a while bebating if I should point this out to two people so proud of themselves and patting themselves on the back, but yeah it needs pointing out. First off, this is a popularity vote which in turn is EXACTLY my point that BLM isn't as popular as other jobs. Second, while summoner went down...ALL the jobs went down. There were three new jobs in all three roles, so of course there would be a decrease so that isn't as important as by how much. BLM dropped 42% in that poll, and SMN only dropped 23% in people wanting to stay with the same job as a MAIN. Context is everything guys.

Because 4.0 Black Mage was literal trash. Despite being a supposed personal DPS king, it couldn't even out-perform Summoner in that category while offering nothing to the raid same Mana Shift and Apoc, which Summoner brought. Add to the fact, it has an obnoxious learning curve, and it's hardly a surprise people were switching off to Summoner or Red Mage. The 4.1 buffs have changed the landscape—making Black Mage closer to the monster DPS it was intended to be. Nevertheless, it will take time to shrug off the stigma it's built.

[Kabooa]

Because 4.0 Black Mage was literal trash..

As a career black mage, can confirm.

Once the shiney buttons wore off, you really got to see the problem, but they adjusted it in the Deltascape minipatch, with further adjustments through until now. It's not quite where it should be, but it's not nearly the handicap it was prior, even if the few really good ones were still stomping about the field.

[KaivaC]

snip

I didn't even realize that you had responded. What I said are not ways to work around the job - those are things you should be doing in order to effectively play the job. I toyed a little with it after my post in PotD, just to see if your concerns were valid. Granted, PotD is not exactly the best way to use it, but my BLM is in the 30s, so I jumped in to see what a lvl 60 BLM feels like. I am not convinced that the problems are nearly as bad as you are suggesting. In fact, beacuse of you, I now have a bigger interest in BLM. BLMs do not need the mobility that you are suggesting. What you want is a mobile turret. This is not WoW. Again, I have to say, if you feel like you're struggling with this in higher levels, then you are not playing the job correctly. The job shines best when you know the fight and knew when you can and cannot execute certain actions.

[P_Wing]

Moving during GCD is yes an option...but it isn't actual mobility it's simply moving in stutters during GCD.

I thought I wasn't gonna reply more to OP but this sentence tickles me. It seems like you really did not understand the core of BLM. BLM is about moving as little as we can, we only need to dodge AoEs which can be easily done with 1 GCD, therefore swiftcast / firestarter proc and thunder proc is more than enough for that.

True mobility is being able to move AS NEEDED WHEN NEEDED without losing to much momentum of the job, which is the core mechanic of this job.

True mobility is not the core of BLM's job, actually it's the farthest concept for BLM. We can always move "when needed" but not "as needed".
Even red mage, summoner and healers need some casts and need to be immobile for certain spells. The only truly mobile class is bard and machinist. You should probably try them instead.

[Malkria]

I didn't even realize that you had responded. What I said are not ways to work around the job - those are things you should be doing in order to effectively play the job. I toyed a little with it after my post in PotD, just to see if your concerns were valid. Granted, PotD is not exactly the best way to use it, but my BLM is in the 30s, so I jumped in to see what a lvl 60 BLM feels like. I am not convinced that the problems are nearly as bad as you are suggesting. In fact, beacuse of you, I now have a bigger interest in BLM. BLMs do not need the mobility that you are suggesting. What you want is a mobile turret. This is not WoW. Again, I have to say, if you feel like you're struggling with this in higher levels, then you are not playing the job correctly. The job shines best when you know the fight and knew when you can and cannot execute certain actions.

...So because PoTD is as easy as it is, with almost no mechanics, my concerns are not validated in your eyes. Sure, because as you said PoTD is such a great way to judge a job's faults. MAYBE if you were doing it solo I would consider it a more fair opinion, but like I said in the opening post once you get past 60 you really can't be 'over geared' and the issues of the job become more apparent.

Furthermore, yes your suggestion is a workaround. Yes it is how people play the class, but it doesn't change the core issue the job has, and that being it's actually a fairly bad design for what it is trying to do.

True mobility is not the core of BLM's job, actually it's the farthest concept for BLM. We can always move "when needed" but not "as needed".
Even red mage, summoner and healers need some casts and need to be immobile for certain spells. The only truly mobile class is bard and machinist. You should probably try them instead.

You ALMOST got my point...and then you kept going. I'm not sure if it is me not explaining this properly or if my audience is in such a fervor to defend this job they can't think past their prejudices. Much like the one post which actually though I was suggesting having the orbs constantly decaying every three seconds.

The concept of the BLM isn't actually to BE a turret, that is how most people PLAY it. The concept, the CORE concept, is momentum. Keeping up the cycle to put out as much damage as possible while on the cycle between fire and ice. The problem being that this momentum far to easily is lost much in the same way as a runner tripping over a crack; and whether from lag, mechanics, or simply being "someone who hasn't memorized the fight" there are a LOT of cracks to interrupt this momentum. Like I said before, having a mechanic that the longer you stay put the faster you cast in a similar way to the MNK building up greased lighting by attacking...the more a turret play style is achieved in a much more organic way. The core concept is NOT about being a turret it's about keeping that momentum and thus high DPS going, and that does not necessarily translate to the current way BLM plays as being the best way to have the job run.

It also does NOT necessarily mean that the stutter movement that is being so heavily praised fits well with the mechanics of the game. Because while you can argue this comes from knowing the game well, the same argument can be made for using bugs and exploits to do things you shouldn't be able to do. Just because both examples exist, does not mean that the elements are good, balanced, or fun. Yes you can play around them, you can plan for them, you can even master them...but that still doesn't mean it's a good design.

The core of the BLM is rewarding you to standing your ground and keeping a good momentum going, and while you can define this as being 'a turret' it still doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to move when needed without fearing your DPS is going to slam into a brick wall. Casters have cast times, great point. But that still doesn't preclude that the BLM could have both a design that allows more natural mobility without sacrificing the rewards to staying in one place to do it's DPS. The mechanic I just explained being one of only a multitude of possible ways this could be done with a BETTER DESIGN.