Black magic...kinda sucks

[Popotato]

I'm not entirely sure. I'm convinced this entire thread has been b8 at this point. Especially after seeing the OP's other posts.

Yeah, I think this thread was doomed as soon as someone disagreed with OP lol

Also I might've found what is meant by 9.9?

Psalm 9:9 - The Lord is a refuge for the oppressed,
a stronghold in times of trouble.

Traditionally it's a colon not a period, but it gets the point through, unlike some other ideas OP has had. Also, maybe citing a Bible verse is a biiiiiit dramatic...

EDIT:

Maybe an eye-roll emoji

Yeah that makes a lot more sense LOL, the Bible verse was a weird coincidence. I definitely shouldn't think too deep into anything said in this thread.

[whiskeybravo]

can someone help me out on what OP means by 9.9?

Maybe an eye-roll emoji

[Remyogic]

I've given up on this "discussion" and this question is off-topic but I'm still wondering, can someone help me out on what OP means by 9.9?

Yes, 9.9 is the "rolling eyes" emoji. You will sometimes see it as 9_9 also.

[Popotato]

Yes, 9.9 is the "rolling eyes" emoji. You will sometimes see it as 9_9 also.

Yeah, I had no idea, but good to know now! I hang out more with JP players in game and they have a completely set of emojis. I used one time and no one had any idea what it was lol

Anyways, sorry for taking this off topic

EDIT: I have no idea about formatting on forums so I dunno how to get rid of the auto-emojis, but it's 「　: D　」 no space

[Nhadaly]

I have played through every single savage fight so far in Stormblood, i NEVER had issues with moving for mechanics and when i did there were ALWAYS ways to deal with them, you CAN deal with every single movement out there, in every dungeon, every raid boss, using the tools provided to you by the game, again, actual black mages with raiding expirience in this very thread tell you this exact same thing, if you cant deal with movement then its always your fault, there is always something you could have saved, or done, to deal with said movement.

As a Black Mage i am also top dps in most of the groups ive been in, unless i make major mistakes, or died, or a combination of both, you can look me up in FFlogs if you want for the perfect examples of when i wasnt top dps and when i was, and you can clearly see the reasons for both, BLM is currently top dps, hands down, the FFlogs metrics prove this, its proven, nothing of what you say will change that fact.

If you want to argue against good black mages like in this thread, please get some actual expirience with the class in high-end content first, or get a very good understanding of the class itself. you seem to have neither of those things right now, all the black mages here that have actual expirience with it keep telling you that the job, while it has some issues, is currently mostly fine in all end-game content, and none of the issues you presented are the actual issues the class faces.

I admire how much patience people have in this thread to tolerate all the nonsense the OP is spewing, clearly nothing is going to convince them when you present facts and they are simply ignoring them or otherwise.

Do you want video proof of everything literally every black mage here has said? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_wLKZ0sJMUMFW7qTGNmhSg/videos here you go, all the video evidence is right there.

[zuzu-bq]

It's just the classic of people liking the job's look and what it does but not liking or not figuring out how it plays.

[KaivaC]

At this point, I feel like the OP has lost too much credibility. The discussion started off soundly enough, but if OP is now threatening to report people without proof of parser usage, then there's really no point in entertaining their responses anymore. Some suggestions were offered and OP has argued against every single one of them - which happens, but it's the nature in which they are currently defending said points recently that makes it hard to take them seriously anymore. The fact that OP has now openly threatened to report somebody multiple times makes it difficult to really want to engage with them on this subject.

[PerrinTaveren]

You don't need to parse to know that BLM has the highest dps. I can grab agro from the tank without any hassle while we have a samurai who has ilvl 370 full savage raid gear while i have ilvl 355 eureka gear. (unless i use diversion etc ofc, it is essential not to be a d*ck as a BLM) :3

I am a ps4 player so there is no possible way for me to get any solid proof that BLM is the highest dps. But, in fact, in my opinion it doesn't have to be. Yes in theory it is supposed to be a selfish job but you can't expect BLM to be a goddess while other jobs suffer in dps. And i don't understand the idea why every job needs a utility. I hope they buff SAM too so they can be more equal to us. I don't have any bad blood with any job, i like SAM as well. I don't, and probably most people, play BLM because it is the highest dps of them all! I personally like it. I like the playstyle, job style, big explosions etc. Idm if SAM or SMN or MNK has higher dps.

People should play the job they want to play because ''they want to''. If you don't like BLM, shut up and stop complaining! BLM was here since 1.0. It is a solid job and yes it is hard to master but some people love the challenge. Not every job should be RDM *cough*

And don't threaten people. It is a sign of toxicity and people can report toxic people as well. Be good, be good at your job and play the game because it is fun! Don't think too much about who has the highest dps. Just enjoy. And if you don't, please, don't talk about it.

[Frizze]

Malkria, lets pretend the last 15 pages hadnt happened for a minute. You were liking the class, but as you got into higher level content some of the mechanics that veteran BLMs have been used to/dealing with for a couple years now started to get in the way of your fun. Because of this, you feel the class is poorly designed for the setting of the combat system in this particular game. You could make similar arguments for a couple more classes(playing ninja with a poor connection is painful, getting top tier results from several of the classes requires really clunky feeling play). But hey, Im sure almost everyone here could name a couple quality of life improvements theyd like to see for the class(pretty much every class has some of these theyd like afterall). So even if we all "agreed" with you, whats your end game? A complete re-design would take months(theyd probly only be willing/able to implement something like that during an expansion patch) and might alienate the people who enjoy the class now - it feels different then a lot of the other classes and some of us like that. And even then, a re-design isnt guaranteed to be any better. So before this conversation turned, what were you hoping to get out of it? Im genuinely curious.

Sidenote: And did you really think the conversation wouldnt turn against you? The first thing you said was "Your class...kinda sucks", and that post had a couple factual errors that people have since corrected you on. Thats kinda a negative place to start from.

[Malkria]

Wait...

11 hours.

Because I realized what actually was going on beyond the mentality of BLM being a 'turret'. If you had a mechanic where the BLM simply did more damage the longer it stayed in an area vs the current cast times, the effect would still be a turret game style. But the point is to keep up the cycle of switching between fire and ice on a timer, that isn't a turret based job it's a momentum based job. Further highlighted that any interruption is a DPS loss. If the mechanics as a whole rooted the BLM in one spot it would be a true turret DPS playstyle, but the actual mechanic is draining your MP on heavy hitting spells and switching stances to refill for another barrage. Ergo, momentum.

Really kind of goes with the whole "Need to know what's coming and when" for Black Mage. Know when these aoes and stacks are going to happen and plan ahead, including softlocking the party member you want to hop to during the casting animation beforehand.

Except this can be a problem for two reasons. You still need to keep track of said target to know when moving would actually get you out of danger, and it assumes that said person doesn't screw up themselves. Because if they do, then you now have two people who either the healer has to focus on getting back up or getting off the floor. This against the NIN's shadowstep which is essentially 'blink' in every other game for the magic user. Tying it to another party member not only increases it's risk to use, but complicates what would be a simple blink spell in any other game.

It's adorable that you keep threatening that you can get me banned, but don't (you can't).

Actually all I 'threatened' was that I could report you, and make a good case for why when your statements have been that I need to provide personal DPS proof (via parser) to provide an argument. Except the longer you kept accusing me of having no experience with the job, the more I actually gained. You don't need to get to savage level to see the issues with the job since the difference between cutting edge content and older content is essentially how much margin of error you get for screw ups. Ergo demanding parser data, which you yourself said is against the rules to harass other players over, could be argued as something even in the forums that could get you banned. YOU started that fight, and I honestly have nothing to lose. In fact, I personally don't believe the moderators can do anything, but we can always test it. But that to me would be like handing someone a gun you think is empty and insisting they pull the trigger with it pointed at you. You could be right and nothing happen, or you could end up banned. I however assume no risk...so why are you pushing this?

You don't need to parse to know that BLM has the highest dps. I can grab agro from the tank without any hassle while we have a samurai who has ilvl 370 full savage raid gear while i have ilvl 355 eureka gear. (unless i use diversion etc ofc, it is essential not to be a d*ck as a BLM) :3

And don't threaten people. It is a sign of toxicity and people can report toxic people as well. Be good, be good at your job and play the game because it is fun! Don't think too much about who has the highest dps. Just enjoy. And if you don't, please, don't talk about it.

First off I am not 'threatening' anyone, I mearly pointed out the facts. If you feel threatened by someone pointing out that demanding parser data could be seen as the same sort of harrasment that WILL get you banned in game...then simply don't do it. I also said I wasn't going to bother since to me unless you actually got banned in game reporting players on forums when you could just not read their posts is much easier and simple, and being banned from the forum to me comes across as a slap on the wrist.

As for threat, yes this is a decent way to tell DPS in a general sense. But as a WHM I have ripped aggro off tanks quite a bit. How good a tank is at keeping aggro varies a lot between them, and therefore isn't proof positive if you can take a mob's attention off them.

Malkria, lets pretend the last 15 pages hadnt happened for a minute. You were liking the class, but as you got into higher level content some of the mechanics that veteran BLMs have been used to/dealing with for a couple years now started to get in the way of your fun. Because of this, you feel the class is poorly designed for the setting of the combat system in this particular game. You could make similar arguments for a couple more classes(playing ninja with a poor connection is painful, getting top tier results from several of the classes requires really clunky feeling play). But hey, Im sure almost everyone here could name a couple quality of life improvements theyd like to see for the class(pretty much every class has some of these theyd like afterall). So even if we all "agreed" with you, whats your end game? A complete re-design would take months(theyd probly only be willing/able to implement something like that during an expansion patch) and might alienate the people who enjoy the class now - it feels different then a lot of the other classes and some of us like that. And even then, a re-design isnt guaranteed to be any better. So before this conversation turned, what were you hoping to get out of it? Im genuinely curious.

Sidenote: And did you really think the conversation wouldnt turn against you? The first thing you said was "Your class...kinda sucks", and that post had a couple factual errors that people have since corrected you on. Thats kinda a negative place to start from.

No I said "Black magic...kinda sucks". As for endgame, the ball has to start somewhere and I am willing to bet that with the job being 'dumbed down' in Stormblood there was a lot of bemoaning it despite the fact the job became easier to play for more people, correct? Furthermore the more I look across the web the more people have pointed out that BLM in fact really DOES need some serious reworks. For example all the AoE spells that are either redundant and/or under powered by the endgame such as the fire 2 and blizzard 2 and freeze. In fact you could simply make those 'neutral' spells such as giving lightning more of a presence as an AoE element to not only make the BLM feel more diverse as a caster but make AoE more effective. Maybe even add a haste ability proc to the lighting to allow the BLM to cast more frequently.

But even then, it doesn't change the fact that as has been pointed out that ANY misstep on the BLM's part is a massive DPS loss, which in turn highlights the counter argument that has been running in a lot of people's posts. If the BLM is strongest when you know the fight, then it is the counter point to RDM in that it is weakest in progression. Because until you know a fight to plan for it, then a BLM would naturally have greater difficulties keeping it's 'highest DPS' card in play. If the RDM's problem is that it isn't as useful once you learn the fights and it's utility becomes less useful, the opposite argument can be made for BLM.

To me the major issue is that the job is in the end all about momentum and keeping up the stream of DPS, and while I am all for the turret playstyle and even rewarding it the way the job is set up currently has more then a few noticeable flaws. The redundant spells that are next to ignored by end game, the movement that relies on keeping track of a party member and that they don't screw up or move out of range, the fact that the job loses so much DPS at the slightest hiccup, and a timer that keeps you watching it a lot more then the fight. All that combined leaves a lot of room for improvement and while it doesn't inherently need a complete rework as I play with it more, it DOES need a fair bit of retooling.