Mod users in FFXIV are getting out of control

[JackHatchet]

A large part of this discussion has subverted the point and had become community vs community. Pro mod people against snow-flakes. And all sorts of legit issues are getting overlooked like protesting against harassment. Ultimately, the bigger this battle gets the more attention it brings to modding. If pro-modders want to keep their mods they should self-police themselves and refrain from adding more fuel to this fire. Agree with people that harassment is wrong--and then move on. Trying to argue the legitimacy of mods will only result in more fire. And the bigger the fire gets--the more Square-Enix will notice it. And they'll nuke the modding community to put that fire out. So can we try to agree and move on?

[Alucard135]

And they'll nuke the modding community to put that fire out.

SE won't bother with this issue because they know it will open up a huge can of worms on them regarding parsers and bots. Furthermore, it doesn't negatively affect their sales from mogstation (the fact that they started modding the demonic and angelic attire from release day indicates that they already purchased it).

[KisaiTenshi]

SE won't bother with this issue because they know it will open up a huge can of worms on them regarding parsers and bots. Furthermore, it doesn't negatively affect their sales from mogstation (the fact that they started modding the demonic and angelic attire from release day indicates that they already purchased it).

Are you sure about that? How do you know they didn't just swap the models?

The only way SE could actually identify modders if is they install a client-side detector that can detect when game files are read/modified. This would also get rid of ACT and ReShade, and, at that point, SE would be hurting their bottom line.

That's very wrong. SE doesn't need to install anything like Hackshield or GameGaurd, or VAC, or Warden, etc. Those tools are defeated. What would be needed is hook rejection code (which would also break tools like nVidia Experience, AMD ReLive/Raptr, MSI Afterburner, OBS, etc) that requires static compilation (no third-party libraries, no CRT/CPPRT DLL) to avoid CRT patching, and encryption of both the game binaries and the assets so that tampering with either prevents the game from running.

And thus increases support costs.

However as stated, many times, the game client can never be perfectly secured unless it's simply a video stream from a secured location. So why bother with the extra complication when it would mean having to re-download the complete game every time the protection system is broken.

No, at best, SE has not cracked down on modding, third party tools, etc, because up until relatively recently people were not putting a spotlight on it. SE can continue to ignore modding at it's own peril, and then when they finally decide to ban everyone, they will get a PR blowback because they hadn't enforced their ToS at all before. Either SE starts cracking down on known ACT users, or it's going to have to live with the lewd mods proliferating and ruining the game's reputation further.

I don't expect SE to do anything, really. Not till someone carelessly shows them on a twitch stream that SE staff are watching.

[Hestzhyen]

No, at best, SE has not cracked down on modding, third party tools, etc, because up until relatively recently people were not putting a spotlight on it. SE can continue to ignore modding at it's own peril, and then when they finally decide to ban everyone, they will get a PR blowback because they hadn't enforced their ToS at all before. Either SE starts cracking down on known ACT users, or it's going to have to live with the lewd mods proliferating and ruining the game's reputation further.

I don't expect SE to do anything, really. Not till someone carelessly shows them on a twitch stream that SE staff are watching.

SE hasn't cracked down on modding purely because of the futility of it. You mentioned yourself that players will defeat any and all countermeasures so the preventative measures are probably wasted effort that the devs can focus into other areas. I also sincerely doubt XIV's reputation will get worse because it has the same nude/lewd modding community that all major games do. If anything XIV is totally tame compared to some options I've seen for other games... and there are plenty of great SFW options too, like prettier Au Ra scales, long hair, NPC outfits that aren't available in the game or on the Mog Shop, nicer texture packs, color tweaks to existing minions and mounts, etc.

If SE suddenly starts trying to play whack-a-mole with modding communities by issuing DMCAs and other take-down notices then they absolutely deserve any negative press they get. User mods are a thing game companies have learned to live with; in some respects, it helps the game attract and keep new players since they can satisfy their own particular desires without SE spending Dev resources to cater to every niche and fancy. Since SE wasn't gung-ho about cracking down on parsers or mods before now it will absolutely be a knee-jerk reaction to placate pearl-clutchers like OP. That's worse than letting some horndogs see naked characters on their screens IMO.

Live and let live. If you don't like it, don't use it. If you get harassed by mod users, report them and sleep well knowing a GM will land on them like a ton of bricks. If you like it, go ham at your own risk and keep it to yourself.

[Alael]

snip

Here another doomsday caller, Wow and before wow lineage 2 had those ''mod'' and they never had any problem as matter of fact blizzard clearly state that they would act only againts those taking avantages And not only making estetical changes for the player itself, There were those who in wow modded mines (gatherer mine intended) into lighthouse or similiar, those people were banned But i have never heard blizzard banning user for using ''nude'' parch in what 15 year? and look the game is still here what a suprise.

[HyoMinPark]

No, at best, SE has not cracked down on modding, third party tools, etc, because up until relatively recently people were not putting a spotlight on it. SE can continue to ignore modding at it's own peril, and then when they finally decide to ban everyone, they will get a PR blowback because they hadn't enforced their ToS at all before. Either SE starts cracking down on known ACT users, or it's going to have to live with the lewd mods proliferating and ruining the game's reputation further.

I don't expect SE to do anything, really. Not till someone carelessly shows them on a twitch stream that SE staff are watching.

SE hasn’t focused on banning people that use third-party tools because it would hurt their bottom line. They are already well aware that people use mods, ACT, ReShade, and the like. It’s not like this suddenly came up within the last six months or so, and they aren’t as ignorant about it as you think.

Also, the developers were watching Ultimate streams. ACT was very vividly present on those said streams.

[KageTokage]

Also, the developers were watching Ultimate streams. ACT was very vividly present on those said streams.

I can't help but wonder if they watched any of the streams where people were hacking the camera so they could zoom out far enough to see the entire arena at all times and thus make the divebombs and other mechanics easier to avoid.

[Yeol]

I can't help but wonder if they watched any of the streams where people were hacking the camera so they could zoom out far enough to see the entire arena at all times and thus make the divebombs and other mechanics easier to avoid.

You don't need it if you play on Ultrawide monitor.

[KisaiTenshi]

I can't help but wonder if they watched any of the streams where people were hacking the camera so they could zoom out far enough to see the entire arena at all times and thus make the divebombs and other mechanics easier to avoid.

If you play in 4K, you can make your character less than 120 pixels tall in some cases. It's dependent on the arena/field size. on a 4K screen that's 5.5% height. This is actually problematic in early ARR dungeons where if you zoom all the way out, the actual backgrounds get in the way. But this is not a mod, this is the content that was produced before 4K was doable.

SE hasn’t focused on banning people that use third-party tools because it would hurt their bottom line. They are already well aware that people use mods, ACT, ReShade, and the like. It’s not like this suddenly came up within the last six months or so, and they aren’t as ignorant about it as you think.

Also, the developers were watching Ultimate streams. ACT was very vividly present on those said streams.

FFXIV suffers from broken windows theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory

Under the impression that a broken window left unfixed leads to more serious problems, residents begin to change the way they see their community. In an attempt to stay safe, a cohesive community starts to fall apart, as individuals start to spend less time in communal space to avoid potential violent attacks by strangers. The slow deterioration of a community as a result of broken windows modifies the way people behave when it comes to their communal space, which, in turn, breaks down community control. As rowdy teenagers, panhandlers, addicts, and prostitutes slowly make their way into a community, it signifies that the community cannot assert informal social control, and citizens become afraid that worse things will happen. As a result, they spend less time in the streets to avoid these subjects and feel less and less connected from their community if the problems persist.

In the context of a game, the more egregious modders, ACT users, and botters chase out other paying players, and we've all see this activity, if not experienced first hand from the "parser" users who harass and kick people just so they can get a better score on fflogs, to this thread with the lewd mods, and players maxing sexual advances on players who they think are into erotic role play because their client-side mods show them naked.

ACT use is the easiest low-hanging fruit they can go after, because you've all been warned before about it by Yoshi-P. Yet people keep posting about how they use it on the official forums. SE could just turn on a silent "hook check" and track exactly what's been hooked into the memory space of the game client upon connection to the game world lobby, and one day everyone who tripped that flag get's warned, then banned if it continues. ACT actually works in exactly the same way bots do. So if they want to kill the bots, they have to kill ACT.

Texture mods are incredibly easy to detect by running checksums on the files, it takes 4 seconds per 2GB file. So it would add an entire minute to the launcher or a self-test on zone changes for someone with a SSD, or possibly several minutes for people on laptops with 5400RPM drives. But the way modders tend to get around checksum checks is by not running the official launcher, and instead running the game with outdated versions of game data, or re-patching the game data every time the game is launched. So that makes everyone suffer with additional loading time just because the modders wouldn't behave.

You guys using ACT don't even know what ACT does.
It can read/write to memory in the game client for:
Targets
Chat log
Monsters
Party members
Server time
ZoneID's
Player

So there is nothing stopping anyone from writing a bot using ACT, and it's likely bots exist that use it.

[KaivaC]

snip

There is just so much 'no' in this post. With the way the game engine is set up, you cannot write a bot through ACT. Good luck using a bot for that in V5S if someone were to try, what with its random elements. Good luck doing that in V7S, what with the OT having to drag Ultros to the opposite corner he spawned from (which changes based on the order in which it was summoned). There are too many variables in an actual Savage fight that its next to useless to try to writing a bot through ACT. ACT reads data and relays it to you. That's all it does. It does not work in the way that bots do.