Mod users in FFXIV are getting out of control

[Tsunenori]

Idk...i mean, if someone yells at you in game, they only see your character too, it still hurts. If someone is perving on me, it's not just the character, its the player who animates them to a point. Othewise they'd just perv on npcs I think.

I see where you're coming from here, but I think this part is just a difference of opinion or personality. A lot of players shrug getting yelled at off too since whoever it is doesn't matter to them and isn't a part of their lives, but your angle here is a fair one to take.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending taking pictures of people without their permission and posting them around and harassing them or anything like that. Even if we're going all the way down the well, and talking about NSFW content being misused in an ERP scenario, consent is still critical and the person doing something harmful to someone else is in the wrong. I just don't think targeting the mods is the issue here over targeting the people. I honestly can't imagine the people misusing this stuff are a majority within that group of players.

[RitsukoSonoda]

The most offensive people to me are those that feel the need to do everything they can to impact other people simply because those people take enjoyment in something they don't like personally and has absolutely no impact on themselves as an individual. Seriously this started with the OP complaining about what other people "might" see on their own screen that they can neither deny or confirm unless they actually look at the person's screen or get sent a screenshot outside the game. Texture swap has been around for decades. Is it against ToS? Yes technically, however most game companies generally do not care in this regard because the swap is only visible on the client side. Unless that texture swap results in an unfair advantage in game it has no impact on other players.

[RiyahArp]

Hyo I was responding to a post that all nude modders were the opposite, but that scene does have a good amount of people who are skeevy and suffering, and i say this from experience. So it's not really fair to safe "why no all modders like that are responsible." There are people who are ok, but in MMOS even in general, you'd be stunned at the people who suffer from illnesses, and many of them do end up in that scene looking for fulfilment.

Except they aren't seeing you naked, they're seeing a fictional character naked. No matter your investment or personal attachment, the avatar you play is not real. It's this distinction some people seem to forget. If I run a dungeon nude, that has no bearing on my actual self.

Look, the reason it doesn't bother you is because nudity doesn't bother you. It really doesn't bother me that much either. But there are things that would bother me that would be done with my character, and I'm sure there are things that would do so for you. If they were to happen, I don't think people would be so sanguine about it.

If the person has less of a tolerance, i don't think we should be dismissive.

I just don't think targeting the mods is the issue here over targeting the people. I honestly can't imagine the people misusing this stuff are a majority within that group of players.

Eh, yeah I'd agree. I just really don't like how people are kind of getting all heated over the mods above all or kind of downplaying a person's reaction because its only pixels.

[JohnnyDevo]

Idk...i mean, if someone yells at you in game, they only see your character too, it still hurts.

I think the important distinction here is that the yelling is directed at the person behind the screen and not the character. The perving, however, can only ever be done to the character. No matter how many layers they peel off of your avatar, they will never ever see you naked.

And in the end? It simply means you can be as affected by it as you allow yourself to be. Just like with some stranger on the internet yelling at you. There's an identical amount of harm. There's an identical amount of ability to police it. So in the end, the only thing you can really do is choose not to let yourself be bothered, and to report those who harass you.

[HyoMinPark]

Hyo I was responding to a post that all nude modders were the opposite, but that scene does have a good amount of people who are skeevy and suffering, and i say this from experience. So it's not really fair to safe "why no all modders like that are responsible." There are people who are ok, but in MMOS even in general, you'd be stunned at the people who suffer from illnesses, and many of them do end up in that scene looking for fulfilment.

I know that there are skeevy and awful people out there; I also speak from experience. Here’s what I do: I just don’t let it bother me; I don’t concern myself with what people see on their screen. I also am well aware of the fact that my character is not me in real life; there is a difference in lewd tells/screens directed at my character, and lewd comments/photographs of myself in real life. If someone were to contact me with lewd /tells or sent me lewd screenshots of my character, I would just ignore them, report them if I felt like it, and blacklist them. I don’t start a crusade about it; I also don’t just assume that everyone is like that person. I’m well aware not everyone has innocent intentions, but letting a harasser have power over you—or know that they have power over you—is what lets them win. So I shrug it off.

[ko_]

I don't have a huge opinion on either side, but I do want to ask a question as I do see this alot. What would you guys do if someone came - ingame- and stood behind or infront of your character in a pose that looks like it's humping you? Would you stand there or run off or wouldn't care? Yes it's just pixels but alot of people move cause it's abit off putting to see that. I would move myself and I don't think of the character as me either. But I'm just asking what would you do. I'm not defending op btw, just a question I thought up. As I do see alot of that ingame, hell I've seen people get as mad as to yell at the person coming up close to them.

[HyoMinPark]

I don't have a huge opinion on either side, but I do want to ask a question as I do see this alot. What would you guys do if someone came - ingame- and stood behind or infront of your character in a pose that looks like it's humping you? Would you stand there or run off or wouldn't care? Yes it's just pixels but alot of people move cause it's abit off putting to see that. I would move myself and I don't think of the character as me either. But I'm just asking what would you do. I'm not defending op btw, just a question I thought up. As I do see alot of that ingame, hell I've seen people get as mad as to yell at the person coming up close to them.

Myself, I just move or teleport away. Someone is being immature, and I just leave. No need for me to get up in arms over it at the end of the day.

[Tsunenori]

Eh, yeah I'd agree. I just really don't like how people are kind of getting all heated over the mods above all or kind of downplaying a person's reaction because its only pixels.

I agree with most of the points you've made in this thread, for what it's worth. It's just a wide and complex issue, and you're going to have a number of different opinions mixing in here that are going to dance around each other trying to win an argument, and I'm just trying to think about it as best as I can from the business side of it. You brought up people who've been stalked and harassed IRL, and I really feel for those players. The mods don't even have to be part of the equation, it can just be a clingy FC member or a friend who can't take no for an answer. Those things are absolutely going to trigger some horrible feelings, and I wish there was a way to avoid that and I by no means want to dismiss the discomfort those players feel.

I'm just not sure it's worth dedicating time and development resources that already seem to be spread pretty thin to a war on modding that probably won't be won anyway. You can look at other MMOs and see the fruits of that labor. I'm normally in favor of a grander cultural change around these things than targeting the tools people use, which is why I mentioned consent being key here. That takes time though. I don't know, Square-Enix will do whatever they feel is best and if the fervor around the mods is enough that they feel inclined to step in and change things then that's what'll happen.

I don't have a huge opinion on either side, but I do want to ask a question as I do see this alot. What would you guys do if someone came - ingame- and stood behind or infront of your character in a pose that looks like it's humping you? Would you stand there or run off or wouldn't care? Yes it's just pixels but alot of people move cause it's abit off putting to see that. I would move myself and I don't think of the character as me either. But I'm just asking what would you do. I'm not defending op btw, just a question I thought up. As I do see alot of that ingame, hell I've seen people get as mad as to yell at the person coming up close to them.

I've had something like that happen a few times. It doesn't bother me, and usually I'll just teleport back to my house but a couple of times I just hung out to see what they were doing because it was amusing. For what it's worth I've been subject to some strong unwanted advances IRL a handful of times and was definitely super uncomfortable about the real thing so I think I do a decent job at separating my character from my own baggage. I realize not everyone is able to do that though.

[RiyahArp]

I think the important distinction here is that the yelling is directed at the person behind the screen and not the character. The perving, however, can only ever be done to the character. No matter how many layers they peel off of your avatar, they will never ever see you naked..

This is true, but that doesn't mean a character that you spend years playing with, maybe building up a backstory with, or making a lot of in game memories is just this blank thing that has nothing to do with the player and cannot be violated in any form or manner. If someone instead did a mod which relied on gore and not nudity, it's still the same too, we aren't really meeting a violent death.

IDk, i guess it's just two different mindsets. I just wish people wont beat too hard on the OP for fear of their mods.

I don't have a huge opinion on either side, but I do want to ask a question as I do see this alot. What would you guys do if someone came - ingame- and stood behind or infront of your character in a pose that looks like it's humping you? Would you stand there or run off or wouldn't care? Yes it's just pixels but alot of people move cause it's abit off putting to see that. I would move myself and I don't think of the character as me either. But I'm just asking what would you do. I'm not defending op btw, just a question I thought up. As I do see alot of that ingame, hell I've seen people get as mad as to yell at the person coming up close to them.

Heh, yeah the "in my country we do not have this thing called personal space" people. Bonus points if you see them spin on their axis while they use first person view or spam emotes. I move quickly, sometimes even porting zones if its in limsa.
Oh, I move.

I know that there are skeevy and awful people out there; I also speak from experience. Here’s what I do: I just don’t let it bother me; I don’t concern myself with what people see on their screen. I also am well aware of the fact that my character is not me in real life; there is a difference in lewd tells/screens directed at my character, and lewd comments/photographs of myself in real life. If someone were to contact me with lewd /tells or sent me lewd screenshots of my character, I would just ignore them, report them if I felt like it, and blacklist them. I don’t start a crusade about it; I also don’t just assume that everyone is like that person. I’m well aware not everyone has innocent intentions, but letting a harasser have power over you—or know that they have power over you—is what lets them win. So I shrug it off.

It..well, it can be more complicated than that.

I remember times when a harasser would try to get people to actually tell the person harassed to avoid the blacklist, dragging more people into it and constantly raising the stakes and the amount of power you need to use. And a lot of people in the scene can be incredibly charming or charismatic, and then it happens and everything goes south. I think the worst experience i ever had was someone with borderline personality disorder literally turning the entire guild i was in against me and wearing people down by sheer madness. It depends on the person, but yeah, you generally are not so rational after a major issue; you simply can't be, because you know how high the stakes are sometimes. I wonder if OP has suffered anything to have this reaction. Like sometimes it can be overreaction, but sometimes sheer safety reflex.

I'm just not sure it's worth dedicating time and development resources that already seem to be spread pretty thin to a war on modding that probably won't be won anyway. You can look at other MMOs and see the fruits of that labor. I'm normally in favor of a grander cultural change around these things than targeting the tools people use, which is why I mentioned consent being key here. That takes time though. I don't know, Square-Enix will do whatever they feel is best and if the fervor around the mods is enough that they feel inclined to step in and change things then that's what'll happen.

Kind of a problem with technology I guess, it seems to amplify chaos a lot more than order. I don't think they could even address modding like that; they had a decade to do so in ffxi.

[ko_]

Myself, I just move or teleport away. Someone is being immature, and I just leave. No need for me to get up in arms over it at the end of the day.

Thats what I do myself. - port away- To be honest I didn't think it was that big of an issue. I feel for the OP if she's been getting harrassed and what not and I even understand on a tiny level of feeling odd having other people see your character naked. But I don't get odd about it. The 2 times I found someone with a mod I asked if I could see the pictures of myself myself lol. Hell I even posed for one of them lol. But yeah at the end of the day it's odd yes. But nothing we can do about it, and we techinally don't even own the characters we make. SE does so if anyone has a say on how the characters should be seen it's SE.