Mod users in FFXIV are getting out of control

[Alael]

snip

Here another doomsday caller, Wow and before wow lineage 2 had those ''mod'' and they never had any problem as matter of fact blizzard clearly state that they would act only againts those taking avantages And not only making estetical changes for the player itself, There were those who in wow modded mines (gatherer mine intended) into lighthouse or similiar, those people were banned But i have never heard blizzard banning user for using ''nude'' parch in what 15 year? and look the game is still here what a suprise.

[AxlStream]

As long as modding doesn't go out of hand to alter the actual product and experience of others, I don't think SE will care and neither should you.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

As long as modding doesn't go out of hand to alter the actual product and experience of others, I don't think SE will care and neither should you.

Considering their lackadaisical approach to ACT and even botters, the latter of whom actually cheat. Yeah, modders are probably low on their "we give a damn" list.

[DreadRabbit]

Here's the thing a lot of people outright dismissing OP's concerns don't understand: the idea that how your avatar is perceived by others does affect you in game and outside the game has been a topic of Game Studies programs since as early as 1995. This isn't anything new, and OP isn't a "sensitive snowflake" for being concerned.

Like it or not, MMORPGs are not just games: they're social spaces. And believe it or not multiple research studies have proven time and again that we as social beings do bring our behaviors from our offline lives into gaming spaces and communities (without even meaning to). That includes judging people by how they type in game, to how they designed their avatar (and therefore look in game), right down to the very content they take part in within the game itself (and outside of the game).

Even without looking up the papers you can see evidence of that both on here and on Reddit: from people "jokingly" making assumptions about people who play Lalafells to people proclaiming Miqo'te players are all horny guys, to whether or not only certain people engage in RP (it happened in this very thread!).

We judge people by what we see and what they choose to present. Even if you're the type of person that doesn't "judge a book by its cover," you do it unconsciously (within milliseconds even!). And we get angry/upset when people don't perceive us in the way we were hoping they would.

Considering that our avatars are the only way to get that sense of physical first impressions in an MMO, it is absolutely not a stretch to assume that an avatar's appearance can affect the first impressions of a person between players. And therefore completely direct how we interact with each other from that first impression onward.

In this paper from 2008 we get this little nugget: (EDIT for some reason hyperlinking didn't work: https://cyberpsychology.eu/article/view/4211 )

"Some authors (e.g. Allison et al., 2006 and Turkle, 1995) compare the player and avatar's relationship to a transmission field, as roughly defined by psychoanalysis: the avatar is not in exclusive competence of the player, while not being completely separated from them. It lies somewhere near the boarder of external and internal (psychological) reality. From the player's viewpoint, the avatar is a kind of individual overlap owing to which they may experiment with their identities. Wolfendale (2006) then describes directly the player and avatar's relationship as an attachment, i.e. as if with an absent or idealised or unreal person, while the feelings created around this relationship are real.

"Some psychodynamic schools point out the focal role of so-called images in one’s psyche (e.g. Hillman, 1997, Kast, 1992), which are certain complexes around which fantasies and emotions resolve and which can be experienced as certain independent parts of one’s psyche. The in-game character can be, in a certain sense, considered an “image” and can thus be an important aspect of a player’s life or psychical development. Understanding what the relationship between a player and his in-game character mean for the player can, to a certain extent, lead to an explanatory framework for e.g. excessive game-play."

Essentially: it really isn't weird to care about your character or care about what others think of your character. Quite a few people do it, even unconsciously. As a matter of fact it's healthy, despite what some of the more volatile posts in this thread want to claim.

And while I couldn't find a free copy of the paper that this study references, it is cited if anyone was interested enough to go get a copy:

“The kinds of avatars people are able to create and use (hence, the avatars and looks the game designers provide for players to use) is important for our understanding of embodiment in virtual worlds. Avatars are in large part the central artifacts through with people build not only social lives, but identities. They become access points in constructing affiliations, socializing, communicating, and working through various selves. They are the material out of which people embody and make themselves real.” (pag. 3)"

We all do this, but with varying goals and levels of attachment.

Anyway, the point is: given how we do form first impressions based on how our avatars are presented to each other it isn't a stretch to assume that using a graphical mod like the nude mod to change another player's appearance would affect first impressions. Whether or not those first impressions would lead to treating those players well or not depends entirely on the people involved.

So saying that these mods don't affect the people that can't see them isn't really correct. It does, because it affects your first impressions (and your interactions afterward) of other players whether you consciously acknowledge it or not.

Now does that mean that using the nude mod is bad? No, it doesn't. No one should feel bad or gross for making use of it or for defending it. But assuming that OP is being overly sensitive is wrong, and that's backed by years of research by multiple people within Games Studies (and yes, that's a thing).

[HyoMinPark]

No, at best, SE has not cracked down on modding, third party tools, etc, because up until relatively recently people were not putting a spotlight on it. SE can continue to ignore modding at it's own peril, and then when they finally decide to ban everyone, they will get a PR blowback because they hadn't enforced their ToS at all before. Either SE starts cracking down on known ACT users, or it's going to have to live with the lewd mods proliferating and ruining the game's reputation further.

I don't expect SE to do anything, really. Not till someone carelessly shows them on a twitch stream that SE staff are watching.

SE hasn’t focused on banning people that use third-party tools because it would hurt their bottom line. They are already well aware that people use mods, ACT, ReShade, and the like. It’s not like this suddenly came up within the last six months or so, and they aren’t as ignorant about it as you think.

Also, the developers were watching Ultimate streams. ACT was very vividly present on those said streams.

[Alucard135]

Are you sure about that? How do you know they didn't just swap the models?

They didn't make them when 4.2 was released but did when it was released in mogstation (check what OP said in all that weird stuff in their post). Also, the majority of those who use mods don't know how to make them. They just use a ready made file for that. Those who know how to mod can probably do that, but those are an insignificant number of people. And I've seen the discord channel for modders. They don't post anything related to swapping models with mogstation items.

[Enlial]

snip.

Hm, well, this is less of a response to you than to the op, though it was something I realized reading through yours.

The thing is, mods are done on a per texture basis as far as Im aware. A nude mod would presumably alter the characters "small clothes" (ie undressed) appearance. So in that case at least, does someone who runs around "naked" in the first place really have that first impression changed that much?

I do feel a little embarrassed, to be honest, "undressing" my character in public (for example when upgrading pieces in eureka) which is the sort of thing what you referenced refers to. But I certainly dont obsess over how people with modded games might see it. That would be some strange paranoia.

As much as I hate the term, if the op seriously feels the way they claim, yes I would call them a snowflake. But I dont think they do. "Concern troll" was a phrase tossed out by an earlier poster that I think is a more accurate description.

[Vrankyl]

The thing is, mods are done on a per texture basis as far as Im aware. A nude mod would presumably alter the characters "small clothes" (ie undressed) appearance. So in that case at least, does someone who runs around "naked" in the first place really have that first impression changed that much?

While I don't hate the use of mods, and in fact think a few are something that the base game should actively use. ((The textures are so bad at times)) I do want to correct something here that I've seen a few people post. Unfortunately there is at least one nude mod that changes more than the textures of the 'small clothes'. I can't confirm this from experience but there was a list going around of items affected by this and pretty much all of the Thav gear is modified ((including the newest Autumn Dress)) as well as other pieces of gear. I can understand the bit of an ick feeling someone might get when wearing a glam that cost them millions of gil only to find out by some means that others can see them nude. Though it is still best to report/blacklist those individuals who inform you of this and move on. It's one thing for people to keep that to themselves, it's another to share it with someone for the purpose of harassing them.

[KageTokage]

Also, the developers were watching Ultimate streams. ACT was very vividly present on those said streams.

I can't help but wonder if they watched any of the streams where people were hacking the camera so they could zoom out far enough to see the entire arena at all times and thus make the divebombs and other mechanics easier to avoid.

[Malkria]

SE can something please be done about this? Feels like my peers around me have X-Ray eyes and are always starring at my chest.

...Is this for real or a troll? What do you care if people who you don't know, when you don't know they are doing it, are looking at your fictional character naked? I mean this makes as much sense as the people who freaked out about the app that supposedly removed make up from pictures.