Mod users in FFXIV are getting out of control

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Look, the reason it doesn't bother you is because nudity doesn't bother you. It really doesn't bother me that much either. But there are things that would bother me that would be done with my character, and I'm sure there are things that would do so for you. If they were to happen, I don't think people would be so sanguine about it.

If the person has less of a tolerance, i don't think we should be dismissive.

Of course. I, for example, have no interest in Futanari yet if someone has one installed, it has precisely zero impact on my experience. I wouldn't know one way or another unless the actually interacted with me. And if they sent screenshots, I'll report them.

Having less tolerance does not magically make your character avatar a real person or even a reflection of yourself. That is the important distinction which seems to be lost here. Why does it matter what someone else sees? Once again, these mods are akin to one's own imagination. Should people be offended because someone may imagine them naked? If so... Scarlett Johansson and Ryan Gosling may have concerns.

[Seig345]

[...]
Did you know you can tell when someone is using the first person camera, since they rotate in place?

They could also be using the non-legacy control scheme or holding down right-click on their mouse and moving it around. Non-legacy keeps your character locked to always be facing the way your camera is facing (so moving the left stick down makes you walk backwards without targeting anything) and holding right click while moving the mouse does the same.

[RiyahArp]

They could also be using the non-legacy control scheme or holding down right-click on their mouse and moving it around. Non-legacy keeps your character locked to always be facing the way your camera is facing (so moving the left stick down makes you walk backwards without targeting anything) and holding right click while moving the mouse does the same.

They walk up to you normally, stand right next to you, and spin in place. Yeah, I don't think it's non-legacy there.

Having less tolerance does not magically make your character avatar a real person or even a reflection of yourself. That is the important distinction which seems to be lost here. Why does it matter what someone else sees? Once again, these mods are akin to one's own imagination. Should people be offended because someone may imagine them naked? If so... Scarlett Johansson and Ryan Gosling may have concerns.

I think this is one where we can't just agree. Some people view characters as tools i guess, and some make them part of themselves. IDK

[SkyEdge1]

Sweet Christmas is this really the flavor of the week thing to be offended about now? It is a literal non-issue, an imaginary character made of pixels has no rights or anything resembling them. It is not a 1:1 parallel to real life. And there are actual in game and real life rules and steps to deal with real harassment! So how is this anything other than just an overreaction?

[stardrifter]

I can only laugh at this... :rolls eyes:

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[HyoMinPark]

It..well, it can be more complicated than that.

I remember times when a harasser would try to get people to actually tell the person harassed to avoid the blacklist, dragging more people into it and constantly raising the stakes and the amount of power you need to use. And a lot of people in the scene can be incredibly charming or charismatic, and then it happens and everything goes south. I think the worst experience i ever had was someone with borderline personality disorder literally turning the entire guild i was in against me and wearing people down by sheer madness. It depends on the person, but yeah, you generally are not so rational after a major issue; you simply can't be, because you know how high the stakes are sometimes. I wonder if OP has suffered anything to have this reaction. Like sometimes it can be overreaction, but sometimes sheer safety reflex.

Immediately after a traumatic experience, no, you are usually not that rational. I speak from experience. But you gain rationality over time; you gain the ability to discern when things truly are “going south”. You cannot live in a constant fear that “[event] happened to me before; it will surely happen to me again, so I must always be on my guard” or “I met bad people before; I will surely meet them again, so I should protect myself/I should assume everyone is like that/I should trust no one”. Because, again, my main issue with the OP is that they are generalizing, and spreading fear where there is no need to spread it. The same for the individuals that got all up in arms about this on Tumblr.

I’m not saying that people should not be cautious; I am saying that they should stop letting things control them—their reactions, their behavior, the way they live. I’ve had terrible things happen to me in real-life—not in this game. I don’t let them control me because it is far too exhausting to live that way.

[DreadRabbit]

If there was a way to actually do this I don't think you'd see much complaining about it. This is one of those "sure it'd be nice" ideas that doesn't actually have a way to exist because that's just not how it works, and the only way to actually try to change something like that would be for Square-Enix to officially sanction it and that's something they definitely won't do. I'm with you there though.

Then people can't use consent as a defense for this mod. Because if it's only an "all or none" use case then you can't get consent from every single player that comes onto your screen. It's just not possible.

You are omitting the context in which that statement was made. People have said it's only pixel in response to those attempting to draw a correlation between their character and their real world selves. Hence the replies of people mortified they are being seen naked when it's "pixels on a screen." There is a distinction here which we need to make.

I don't agree with that at all. Pixels are pixels. If pixels don't matter, which is a blanket statement in and of itself, then you can't turn right around and go "oh but THESE pixels are important, they should be defended." That's being hypocritical. Cosmetics and graphics all boil down to pixels on a screen that don't physically exist, so it's just plain silly to make fun or downplay people that place an importance on their avatar's pixels when just about everyone cares about some aesthetic aspect in this game. Otherwise this very mod we're debating wouldn't exist: it was clearly important enough for someone to make and others to install and to use.

"These pixels don't matter, so shut up! Wait, you can't take MY pixel edits away from me! I have a right to those!" Is what a lot of the responses in this thread boils down to.

[HyoMinPark]

I don't agree with that at all. Pixels are pixels. If pixels don't matter, which is a blanket statement in and of itself, then you can't turn right around and go "oh but THESE pixels are important, they should be defended." That's being hypocritical. Cosmetics and graphics all boil down to pixels on a screen that don't physically exist, so it's just plain silly to make fun or downplay people that place an importance on their avatar's pixels when just about everyone cares about some aesthetic aspect in this game. Otherwise this very mod we're debating wouldn't exist: it was clearly important enough for someone to make and others to install and to use.

The issue you have is you are conflating yourself with your own character. Separate the two, because they are not the same. When people use “your character is just pixels on a screen, it’s completely different from real life” as a response, it’s because you’re saying that someone seeing your character naked is the same thing as someone seeing YOU naked in real life. They are not the same thing, no matter how much of yourself you put into your character. They are not you.

I have had my character (Hyomin Park) since 2012. I have used her in FFXIV since 2015. But she is not me, no matter how attached I am to her, no matter how much time I put into her. She is not me. Her being nude on someone’s screen has little to no bearing on me, because it is not like I am the one naked on their screen. Aside from the fact that I wouldn’t even know about being naked unless they sent me messages telling me as such.

[Lord_Umbra]

Then people can't use consent as a defense for this mod. Because if it's only an "all or none" use case then you can't get consent from every single player that comes onto your screen.

Well technically they don't need consent from players, player own no rights to characters/items it all belongs to/is property of SE. So if wanted get consent only one they'd have ask is SE.

[DreadRabbit]

snip

I am not personally conflating my character as me. I 100% agree that your character isn't you. Got that. I don't personally care that this mod exists. I do care about how outright dismissive and rude some folks have been (not you, Bourne, and Tsunenori among a few others, you guys have been respectful).

However where we're going to have to agree to disagree is that I find it's completely hypocritical for people to tell others that they shouldn't care about how their avatar is presented, yet get angry and defensive at the thought that how they edit their character might be taken away if SE were to pursue something. That's not different at all from others getting angry that their character is seen in a way they don't want. People using the mod care if their character can be naked. Ergo, the pixels matter to them, and it's silly to tell others that they don't matter. That's all I'm getting at on that particular point, and I'm aware I'm part of the minority in this thread that thinks that.

Well technically they don't need consent from players, player own no rights to characters/items it all belongs to/is property of SE. So if wanted get consent only one they'd have ask is SE.

Considering that graphical mods are against the ToS SE technically already did: they told you no. It's just not enforced (because as many have said, how can you enforce it unless you blatantly wave it in their faces?).