Mod users in FFXIV are getting out of control

[Alucard135]

Are you sure about that? How do you know they didn't just swap the models?

They didn't make them when 4.2 was released but did when it was released in mogstation (check what OP said in all that weird stuff in their post). Also, the majority of those who use mods don't know how to make them. They just use a ready made file for that. Those who know how to mod can probably do that, but those are an insignificant number of people. And I've seen the discord channel for modders. They don't post anything related to swapping models with mogstation items.

[Alael]

All i see a group of people making the problem bigger then actually it is, All the person i know that use mod is for their personal enjoyment and add logevity to this game, Saying all those who use mod are harraser and should be all banned then lest ban all with mod all with ACT and all with reshader i wanna see how many player are left in this game after that, Cause i am storry to tell you its the majority of the player base.

Therefore should somone harass anyone for any reason mod or not blacklist and report in case and move on stop begin childish making a ocean out of a tip of a needle, Cause harasser will be there always if you not ready to accept this part you better stop playing online game.

[JackHatchet]

they will get a PR blowback because they hadn't enforced their ToS at all before

If I was a betting man, I would say you're right on that. It does kinda suck how it puts the majority of the player-base in a 'gray' area.

[AxlStream]

As long as modding doesn't go out of hand to alter the actual product and experience of others, I don't think SE will care and neither should you.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

As long as modding doesn't go out of hand to alter the actual product and experience of others, I don't think SE will care and neither should you.

Considering their lackadaisical approach to ACT and even botters, the latter of whom actually cheat. Yeah, modders are probably low on their "we give a damn" list.

[DreadRabbit]

Here's the thing a lot of people outright dismissing OP's concerns don't understand: the idea that how your avatar is perceived by others does affect you in game and outside the game has been a topic of Game Studies programs since as early as 1995. This isn't anything new, and OP isn't a "sensitive snowflake" for being concerned.

Like it or not, MMORPGs are not just games: they're social spaces. And believe it or not multiple research studies have proven time and again that we as social beings do bring our behaviors from our offline lives into gaming spaces and communities (without even meaning to). That includes judging people by how they type in game, to how they designed their avatar (and therefore look in game), right down to the very content they take part in within the game itself (and outside of the game).

Even without looking up the papers you can see evidence of that both on here and on Reddit: from people "jokingly" making assumptions about people who play Lalafells to people proclaiming Miqo'te players are all horny guys, to whether or not only certain people engage in RP (it happened in this very thread!).

We judge people by what we see and what they choose to present. Even if you're the type of person that doesn't "judge a book by its cover," you do it unconsciously (within milliseconds even!). And we get angry/upset when people don't perceive us in the way we were hoping they would.

Considering that our avatars are the only way to get that sense of physical first impressions in an MMO, it is absolutely not a stretch to assume that an avatar's appearance can affect the first impressions of a person between players. And therefore completely direct how we interact with each other from that first impression onward.

In this paper from 2008 we get this little nugget: (EDIT for some reason hyperlinking didn't work: https://cyberpsychology.eu/article/view/4211 )

"Some authors (e.g. Allison et al., 2006 and Turkle, 1995) compare the player and avatar's relationship to a transmission field, as roughly defined by psychoanalysis: the avatar is not in exclusive competence of the player, while not being completely separated from them. It lies somewhere near the boarder of external and internal (psychological) reality. From the player's viewpoint, the avatar is a kind of individual overlap owing to which they may experiment with their identities. Wolfendale (2006) then describes directly the player and avatar's relationship as an attachment, i.e. as if with an absent or idealised or unreal person, while the feelings created around this relationship are real.

"Some psychodynamic schools point out the focal role of so-called images in one’s psyche (e.g. Hillman, 1997, Kast, 1992), which are certain complexes around which fantasies and emotions resolve and which can be experienced as certain independent parts of one’s psyche. The in-game character can be, in a certain sense, considered an “image” and can thus be an important aspect of a player’s life or psychical development. Understanding what the relationship between a player and his in-game character mean for the player can, to a certain extent, lead to an explanatory framework for e.g. excessive game-play."

Essentially: it really isn't weird to care about your character or care about what others think of your character. Quite a few people do it, even unconsciously. As a matter of fact it's healthy, despite what some of the more volatile posts in this thread want to claim.

And while I couldn't find a free copy of the paper that this study references, it is cited if anyone was interested enough to go get a copy:

“The kinds of avatars people are able to create and use (hence, the avatars and looks the game designers provide for players to use) is important for our understanding of embodiment in virtual worlds. Avatars are in large part the central artifacts through with people build not only social lives, but identities. They become access points in constructing affiliations, socializing, communicating, and working through various selves. They are the material out of which people embody and make themselves real.” (pag. 3)"

We all do this, but with varying goals and levels of attachment.

Anyway, the point is: given how we do form first impressions based on how our avatars are presented to each other it isn't a stretch to assume that using a graphical mod like the nude mod to change another player's appearance would affect first impressions. Whether or not those first impressions would lead to treating those players well or not depends entirely on the people involved.

So saying that these mods don't affect the people that can't see them isn't really correct. It does, because it affects your first impressions (and your interactions afterward) of other players whether you consciously acknowledge it or not.

Now does that mean that using the nude mod is bad? No, it doesn't. No one should feel bad or gross for making use of it or for defending it. But assuming that OP is being overly sensitive is wrong, and that's backed by years of research by multiple people within Games Studies (and yes, that's a thing).

[Enlial]

snip.

Hm, well, this is less of a response to you than to the op, though it was something I realized reading through yours.

The thing is, mods are done on a per texture basis as far as Im aware. A nude mod would presumably alter the characters "small clothes" (ie undressed) appearance. So in that case at least, does someone who runs around "naked" in the first place really have that first impression changed that much?

I do feel a little embarrassed, to be honest, "undressing" my character in public (for example when upgrading pieces in eureka) which is the sort of thing what you referenced refers to. But I certainly dont obsess over how people with modded games might see it. That would be some strange paranoia.

As much as I hate the term, if the op seriously feels the way they claim, yes I would call them a snowflake. But I dont think they do. "Concern troll" was a phrase tossed out by an earlier poster that I think is a more accurate description.

[Vrankyl]

The thing is, mods are done on a per texture basis as far as Im aware. A nude mod would presumably alter the characters "small clothes" (ie undressed) appearance. So in that case at least, does someone who runs around "naked" in the first place really have that first impression changed that much?

While I don't hate the use of mods, and in fact think a few are something that the base game should actively use. ((The textures are so bad at times)) I do want to correct something here that I've seen a few people post. Unfortunately there is at least one nude mod that changes more than the textures of the 'small clothes'. I can't confirm this from experience but there was a list going around of items affected by this and pretty much all of the Thav gear is modified ((including the newest Autumn Dress)) as well as other pieces of gear. I can understand the bit of an ick feeling someone might get when wearing a glam that cost them millions of gil only to find out by some means that others can see them nude. Though it is still best to report/blacklist those individuals who inform you of this and move on. It's one thing for people to keep that to themselves, it's another to share it with someone for the purpose of harassing them.

[Malkria]

Like it or not, MMORPGs are not just games: they're social spaces. And believe it or not multiple research studies have proven time and again that we as social beings do bring our behaviors from our offline lives into gaming spaces and communities (without even meaning to). That includes judging people by how they type in game, to how they designed their avatar (and therefore look in game), right down to the very content they take part in within the game itself (and outside of the game).

First off you can't be offended if you don't even know TO be offended. If I was walking around wal-mart and some perv was using X-ray specs on me without my consent...A) how would I know, and B) why would I care? I can't be offended or embarrassed unless I know TO be embarrassed or offended. Same here, unless they sent me a live stream of my character in the buff I wouldn't ever know they have the mods up, and even if they told me the rest of the party probably doesn't have them up so the easiest solution is to boot the perv and move on.

As for judging by people's typing or outfit, maybe some do. Probably most don't though, and getting upset at someone's outfit is like an RP player getting mad at all the 'not actual names' people name their characters with. I gave my character an actual name, and I dress in what I feel is an actual outfit rather then tank in the buff or run around in a chocobo suit. That is my aesthetic, and if you have a problem with a 'mystic cowgirl' themed magic user...oh well. Yes it may impact 'your social space' but at the same time it's a personality thing, and frankly that kind of is the point of playing these games to begin with.

[DreadRabbit]

snip

That's actually been a topic of study too Have you heard of the phrase "clothes make the man"? (not being sarcastic, I ask because we do have non-native English speakers on these forums too).

Part of the reason why the fashion industry is so vast is because we do perceive people differently by what they wear (and don't wear). A guy who walks by in a perfectly tailored suit gives off the image that he's confidant, powerful, and knows what he's doing. Yet if that same man walked by you in baggy jeans down to his knees and tattoos, a lot of people would be far more wary of being around him (just to give some extreme examples). In the case of women, there's always been people judging a woman's personality according to what she wears and how little she may wear (or overdressing).

You can see similar effects in the "show your ___" threads. People comment all the time about how a character looks innocent/evil/etc. purely by the glamour they wear, even if someone else with the exact same face and body preset is nearby wearing something else. So removing that, even the base underwear and hempen sets, can possibly (keyword: possibly) have an impact on how that person is perceived in game. I mean the most common example is usually most people assume female Miqo'te dressed in metal bikini tank armor tend to be played by men (for various reasons). We all know that's not necessarily true, but that doesn't stop that initial judgement being made.

Now whether an individual cares about that is a whole different level because we move into a discussion of personal boundaries, and no two people are the same with those. Some people care more about how they look than others.

Yes it may impact 'your social space' but at the same time it's a personality thing, and frankly that kind of is the point of playing these games to begin with.

I never said "your," "mine," or "their" social space. I said that MMORPGs are social spaces, period. Your living room is a social space. The shopping mall is a social space. School is a social space. This forum is a social space. Anywhere that you have to interact with other people is a social space. Trust me, it's not a brand new term made up to protect people's feelings as you seem to imply here (and if you're not I'm sorry for the assumption).

Otherwise...yeah I have to admit I don't really know where you were going with this post. You're allowed to have your preferred aesthetic, but that's not going to stop people from making judgement about you from your choice in aesthetic. Everyone does it, as I said it takes mere milliseconds, and we're often not aware of it (something as simple as even noticing "Oh hey, that man's wearing pink!" and then moving on is a sign of how society has formed our views of what's normal for a dude to wear and what isn't). It's not typically done to hurt anyone's feelings or to offend, we're just conditioned to be that way. Now most mature people can get past those initial first impressions, if they have an interest to do so with you. Otherwise the judgement is made, and they move on and forget about you in most instances. That's not done to be rude or offend anyone either, it's just how people are.