Mod users in FFXIV are getting out of control

[DreadRabbit]

If there was a way to actually do this I don't think you'd see much complaining about it. This is one of those "sure it'd be nice" ideas that doesn't actually have a way to exist because that's just not how it works, and the only way to actually try to change something like that would be for Square-Enix to officially sanction it and that's something they definitely won't do. I'm with you there though.

Then people can't use consent as a defense for this mod. Because if it's only an "all or none" use case then you can't get consent from every single player that comes onto your screen. It's just not possible.

You are omitting the context in which that statement was made. People have said it's only pixel in response to those attempting to draw a correlation between their character and their real world selves. Hence the replies of people mortified they are being seen naked when it's "pixels on a screen." There is a distinction here which we need to make.

I don't agree with that at all. Pixels are pixels. If pixels don't matter, which is a blanket statement in and of itself, then you can't turn right around and go "oh but THESE pixels are important, they should be defended." That's being hypocritical. Cosmetics and graphics all boil down to pixels on a screen that don't physically exist, so it's just plain silly to make fun or downplay people that place an importance on their avatar's pixels when just about everyone cares about some aesthetic aspect in this game. Otherwise this very mod we're debating wouldn't exist: it was clearly important enough for someone to make and others to install and to use.

"These pixels don't matter, so shut up! Wait, you can't take MY pixel edits away from me! I have a right to those!" Is what a lot of the responses in this thread boils down to.

[HyoMinPark]

I don't agree with that at all. Pixels are pixels. If pixels don't matter, which is a blanket statement in and of itself, then you can't turn right around and go "oh but THESE pixels are important, they should be defended." That's being hypocritical. Cosmetics and graphics all boil down to pixels on a screen that don't physically exist, so it's just plain silly to make fun or downplay people that place an importance on their avatar's pixels when just about everyone cares about some aesthetic aspect in this game. Otherwise this very mod we're debating wouldn't exist: it was clearly important enough for someone to make and others to install and to use.

The issue you have is you are conflating yourself with your own character. Separate the two, because they are not the same. When people use “your character is just pixels on a screen, it’s completely different from real life” as a response, it’s because you’re saying that someone seeing your character naked is the same thing as someone seeing YOU naked in real life. They are not the same thing, no matter how much of yourself you put into your character. They are not you.

I have had my character (Hyomin Park) since 2012. I have used her in FFXIV since 2015. But she is not me, no matter how attached I am to her, no matter how much time I put into her. She is not me. Her being nude on someone’s screen has little to no bearing on me, because it is not like I am the one naked on their screen. Aside from the fact that I wouldn’t even know about being naked unless they sent me messages telling me as such.

[Lord_Umbra]

Then people can't use consent as a defense for this mod. Because if it's only an "all or none" use case then you can't get consent from every single player that comes onto your screen.

Well technically they don't need consent from players, player own no rights to characters/items it all belongs to/is property of SE. So if wanted get consent only one they'd have ask is SE.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I don't agree with that at all. Pixels are pixels. If pixels don't matter, which is a blanket statement in and of itself, then you can't turn right around and go "oh but THESE pixels are important, they should be defended." That's being hypocritical. Cosmetics and graphics all boil down to pixels on a screen that don't physically exist, so it's just plain silly to make fun or downplay people that place an importance on their avatar's pixels when just about everyone cares about some aesthetic aspect in this game. Otherwise this very mod we're debating wouldn't exist: it was clearly important enough for someone to make and others to install and to use.

You are missing the point. The OP and people with similar stances are not simply placing an importance on their avatar, they are drawing a correlation between it and themselves. In that context, they are essentially saying if someone has these mods installed, it's akin to seeing their real bodies naked. That's where the "it's only pixels" argument comes into play. It's one thing to value a certain aesthetic and/or care about your player avatar. It's another entirely when you become so attached you treat them like yourself.

I assure you, if I queue into Dun Scaith topless, I am not actually topless.

[DreadRabbit]

snip

I am not personally conflating my character as me. I 100% agree that your character isn't you. Got that. I don't personally care that this mod exists. I do care about how outright dismissive and rude some folks have been (not you, Bourne, and Tsunenori among a few others, you guys have been respectful).

However where we're going to have to agree to disagree is that I find it's completely hypocritical for people to tell others that they shouldn't care about how their avatar is presented, yet get angry and defensive at the thought that how they edit their character might be taken away if SE were to pursue something. That's not different at all from others getting angry that their character is seen in a way they don't want. People using the mod care if their character can be naked. Ergo, the pixels matter to them, and it's silly to tell others that they don't matter. That's all I'm getting at on that particular point, and I'm aware I'm part of the minority in this thread that thinks that.

Well technically they don't need consent from players, player own no rights to characters/items it all belongs to/is property of SE. So if wanted get consent only one they'd have ask is SE.

Considering that graphical mods are against the ToS SE technically already did: they told you no. It's just not enforced (because as many have said, how can you enforce it unless you blatantly wave it in their faces?).

[Driavna]

However where we're going to have to agree to disagree is that I find it's completely hypocritical for people to tell others that they shouldn't care about how their avatar is presented, yet get angry and defensive at the thought that how they edit their character might be taken away if SE were to pursue something. That's not different at all from others getting angry that their character is seen in a way they don't want. People using the mod care if their character can be naked. Ergo, the pixels matter to them, and it's silly to tell others that they don't matter. That's all I'm getting at on that particular point, and I'm aware I'm part of the minority in this thread that thinks that.

You are not alone, I totally agree with you. The dissonance between what some people said and what they do is also strong.

[HyoMinPark]

However where we're going to have to agree to disagree is that I find it's completely hypocritical for people to tell others that they shouldn't care about how their avatar is presented, yet get angry and defensive at the thought that how they edit their character might be taken away if SE were to pursue something.

My issue is actually that people want to punish the majority because a couple people are being twats about the whole ordeal. I’m very much against pushing the majority just because a few cannot act like mature individuals.

I’m also against the blatant fear-mongering that “anti-modders” are boasting—that people should “be careful” about the glamours they wear, that they should “be careful” when out and about. There is no need for this overt caution: the majority of modders do not care about other toons’ appearances. Aside from the fact that the modding community is probably the minority of players in this game. I’d wager that most do not know about mods, cannot use them, or don’t even care to. But they aren’t getting all up in arms because someone may see their character naked.

[Rosenstrauch]

I don't see how modders making client-side changes to the game's appearance is of any concern to anyone other than those modders. All of this just strikes me as getting offended for the sake of it, and there's far too much of that going around in the world as it is.

[Zeromon]

People using the mod care if their character can be naked. Ergo, the pixels matter to them, and it's silly to tell others that they don't matter.

You're right that the pixels matter, that's a major reason why we play this game at all. However, the modders care about THEIR pixels, the ones that they see on their own screen, not the pixels on other people's screens. The OP seems to be trying to stop how other people can mod their own game pixels. No modder is saying everyone should be forced into modding a certain way or at all. No modder cares if other people view the modder's char in a different way. People should care about how they see their own game, not how modders see their modded games (which inherently has absolutely nothing to do with, and doesn't affect in the slightest, anyone else).

If there is harassement it should get reported, but at that point it hardly matters whether mods were involved or not.

[Myrhn]

I dont understand whats wrong. The majority of mods are client side so only the person that install it is affected by it and there is no way for you to know. If someone using the mod is bothering you and harassing you, report them for harassment and be done with it. Have nothing to do with modding.