Mod users in FFXIV are getting out of control

[Dualgunner]

So honest question as I haven't seen it brought up in the thread yet: what about the players that do make their characters look like themselves?

In that case it's like imagining someone's face with someone else's body. In this game you have no control over body shape, it's all uniform, so all you control is your character's face (from pre-baked faces) and hairstyle. So really, it's photoshopping someone's hair onto a model's face onto a celebrity's body. It's not even that person's concern *until* it starts getting used to directly harass that person.

I like how the OP just changed their character to a level 1 level gladiator on Mateus when they were a Au RA on Gilgamesh at a much higher level. I think OP is trying to hide lul.

Honestly it's a reasonable reaction since people started (allegedly, but I have no reason to disbelieve atm) harassing OP in game because of this thread.

[HyoMinPark]

So honest question as I haven't seen it brought up in the thread yet: what about the players that do make their characters look like themselves?

Be that as it may, there is still a difference between a naked avatar, and you naked in real life. I said it a few pages back, but I'll say it again here so you don't have to search if you didn't see it: the main issue I take with OP is their approach, and then equating someone posting naked pictures of a virtual character to someone posting naked photos of themselves in real life. They are not the same thing, and cannot be equated as such, no matter how much of oneself one places in their character. That's my opinion on that.

I also take issue with the OP's insinuations that this is common trend among modders. The vast majority could not care less about your character being naked or in modified outfits on their screen. They mod for their character, not someone else's.

You can say "it stays on the client side" all you want, however when completely unwilling participants are being told to dress/design their own avatar a certain way to "deal with it or avoid it," then suddenly it does affect them. No one should be forced to avoid certain glamours of all things just because someone else wants to view everyone and their mother naked. No one should be forced to look up an NSFW mod they're not interested in just to figure out what should be avoided in game for it. Not to mention it would just become an eternal chase, because we all know good and well more and more glamours would get added over time to work around that.

This relates back to what I said about fear-mongering. Most modders do not mod to perv on other people's avatars; they do it to enhance their own characters. If people wanted to make OP's character naked, for example, they don't even need mods for that. There's already a program they can easily use to alter a photo that has been around for years: Photoshop. Are we going to start telling people to fear Photoshop as well? Why be afraid when the modders themselves don't care that your specific toon is naked or in modified outfits?

I don't like playing the "but the children!" card, but one example is that a lot of minors play this game (like 5-12 year olds). Can you imagine they or their parents' reactions if a nude of their character was discovered online? It's not the kid itself but it would absolutely do something negative. And are you really going to tell a parent "well you should have looked up this mod and made sure your kid didn't wear x glamour!"?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you have to actually be 13 to "legally" be able to play this game; I'm pretty sure there something in the ToS about minimum age required. And why would they find their character naked online? Are the going around specifically looking for it? What if it's not their character but one that looks just like it in the screenshot? Or, what if the screenshot was, for example, photoshopped? This seems like an implausible scenario to me.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Obviously most folks aren't going to have the exact body proportions, but there are players out there that make a point of getting their character to look as close to how they look offline as possible. The character's still not technically them, but any unwanted "nudes" being posted would hit closer to home in those cases. Is that still a case of "just deal with it," or is that walking along more dangerous territory? Are you really going to tell them that they shouldn't design their character how they want, just like a lot of folks have already said "well don't wear x glamour then"?

Bluntly stated, yes. I do not mean to come across callous, however making a virtual character appear similar to yourself does not alter the fact they are still virtual pixels and cannot be compared to a real life person. No real world harm will come from someone seeing your virtual "self" naked. And we have yet to even cover how the limited nature of FFXIV's character creator makes actual mirror copies of oneself impossible. You will have sweeping generic characteristics your avatar does at best.

While being uncomfortable is entirely subjective, avoiding outfits because someone, maybe, possibly has a nude mod active will likely drive you paranoid. If you cannot see it, why does it matter? Would you be equally offended if someone imagined you in your underwear/naked to absolve their anxiety? That is essentially what client side mods are; someone's imagination.

I don't think the modding community as a whole should be targeted or condemned (heavens no!). However I don't think OP's concern should be apathetically swept to the side either. There's just too many ways it could go wrong, which is why MMOs these days typically put methods in place to try to prevent mods. I don't like playing the "but the children!" card, but one example is that a lot of minors play this game (like 5-12 year olds). Can you imagine they or their parents' reactions if a nude of their character was discovered online? It's not the kid itself but it would absolutely do something negative. And are you really going to tell a parent "well you should have looked up this mod and made sure your kid didn't wear x glamour!"?

And those minors have no business playing as the game is rated Teen. Minors also play Call of Duty, but it isn't Activision's problem if they are offended, hurt or in anyway negatively impacted when the game is rated above their age. Putting the technical aside, how is a teenager negatively impacted by seeing a naked body in a video game? This inherently implies nudity as a whole is something bad and shameful before a certain age. I find that a far worse message to send a teenager. Regardless, they will only see nudity if someone links a screenshot, which is a great way to get yourself banned in-game. What I would tell the parents is to report the person sending your kid screenshots like that because they're an idiot. If said kid found pictures on Reddit or Twitter, well, that has nothing to do with Square Enix. Both sites also implement a NSFW check, which someone has to turn on to see said images. So...

[ShadowHunterrX]

So being naked is a offended thing now in irl and ingame ? Some have coconuts and some have a frankfurter. Who cares !

People are way to fast offended these days and it's not making the world a happier place.

[DreadRabbit]

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Yes, because not a single person in this thread has ever touched a T+ game before they were 13. But I do see your point. In the end it's the parent's responsibility.

But remember that 13 is still a minor. So the people using the mod in the way that a good number of posts are describing (the ones that have mentioned more creepy behavior) are risking a heck of a lot in that they're dealing with an NSFW mod while interacting with said minor. That's absolutely a gray area that's worth discussing.

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All great responses, and believe it or not I agree with most of them.

However, my point is that a lot of folks in this thread are being very callous about the issue and are dismissing just how morally grey this is. We live in an age where people are increasingly more and more defined by their digital personas, and often times they don't really have a choice in that matter. So while I and most folks in this thread wouldn't really care if someone saw their avatar naked, I can't blame the people that would. And as games and technology keep evolving as do character creation systems, this isn't an issue that's going to go away anytime soon. If anything the lines are only going to continue to become more blurred as the industry grows.

Anyway, this isn't the Sims where you have agency over every character in your game, and thus there's absolutely zero issues if you make everyone naked all the time. This is an MMO where other people have agency over their avatars, and dragging them into your (general you) voyeurism can be an issue.

I've seen some folks mention the mod(s) are used for themselves and consenting partners. That's fantastic! (not sarcasm, I do think that's great). But that's not what OP is talking about. They're talking about people making everyone naked and the abuse that's already been seen by it as well as the potential abuse that's there. If it's just pixels and people shouldn't care then why is consent an acceptable defense of the mod, but not an acceptable defense of the people against it?

As for "it's just pixels!":

Yes, they're just pixels. So what's so special about FFXIV pixels that we have to defend the ability to see them naked? Especially in an age when you can get any kind of nude of any quality of any kink you could possibly ask for? For the record: I'm not against the mod existing, but I am curious why the "it's just pixels" argument applies to people unhappy about the mod, but not to the people defending it.

[Crystal_Raven]

but I am curious why the "it's just pixels" argument applies to people unhappy about the mod, but not to the people defending it.

Honestly? This is wasted time from the development side. Why would they waste their time and bother to find a way to patch this type of stuff out potentially ruining dozens of other perfectly fine mods that improve the game visuals a little or whatever because some people can't get over the fact that it's just pixels?

You can shut off one mod specifically, it's either all of them or none, i'd rather not have every single mod out there shut down just because someone is upset over....pixels.

[Remus]

I like how the OP just changed their character to a level 1 level gladiator on Mateus when they were a Au RA on Gilgamesh at a much higher level. I think OP is trying to hide lul.

[Seig345]

I like how the OP just changed their character to a level 1 level gladiator on Mateus when they were a Au RA on Gilgamesh at a much higher level. I think OP is trying to hide lul.

If people were harassing me, I'd hide too.

[KaivaC]

I like how the OP just changed their character to a level 1 level gladiator on Mateus when they were a Au RA on Gilgamesh at a much higher level. I think OP is trying to hide lul.

Considering that OP is being harassed after this thread came out, well, yeah, it's understandable. Do explain how this is a 'lul' moment? I don't agree wholeheartedly with the OP, but I fail to see how somebody being harassed is worthy of laughter or implied ridicule. I know you certainly wouldn't enjoy it if players started harassing you every time you logged in.

[Remus]

Considering that OP is being harassed after this thread came out, well, yeah, it's understandable. Do explain how this is a 'lul' moment? I don't agree wholeheartedly with the OP, but I fail to see how somebody being harassed is worthy of laughter or implied ridicule. I know you certainly wouldn't enjoy it if players started harassing you every time you logged in.

If people were harassing me, I'd hide too.

Honestly it's a reasonable reaction since people started (allegedly, but I have no reason to disbelieve atm) harassing OP in game because of this thread.

If what they say is true they are being harassed in-game that sucks. I don't want to sound rude but making a topic on this subject and the way OP worded their post I'm not really surprised it happened? People need to realise they are on the internet, the Internet isn't some form of safe space where nothing can happen. When you put a message out on a PUBLIC forum where anyone can see it, there is a chance people will find it silly and start harassing them for it. If you have been on the internet long enough and played MMOs you would know mods like this have always been a thing. Same way they are a thing in single player games... (just go look at skyrim mods).

It is unfortunate they are getting harassed for this post, but personally I think they somewhat had it coming knowing how people can be with this subject. People need to think about what they say before actually posting it, the same way you need to think about what you say in real life before saying it. If they are being harassed in-game they can just blacklist and report them and move on. Just make sure to include what they have done (evidence).

Also do you know why I haven't been harassed? The reason is because I think about what I do before doing it. If you know there is a chance someone could harass you for what you did (like a this post for example) then don't freaking do it. There are multiple things I could talk about but they could lead to harassment potentially so I keep them to myself it's not hard. I just hope they have learned their lesson on this and maybe try to think more about what they say on the internet which anyone using it can read this. Also if someone was harassing me when I logged in do you know what I would do? Report and ignore them... I AFK most of the time anyway so things like that don't really faze me because I know it's just a game and if people want to waste time with that...then that's their own business, I will continue watching twitch streams on my other monitor while you do your silliness.

You would most likely disagree with what I said but hey that's life not everyone agrees with every single thing you say.