Define a good player

[Starflake]

On my server basically everyone that isn't French. (Satire, sort of)

[YukiMinamoto]

Personally, I think a good player is someone who really does know their role pretty well: if you're a healer you heal your party members, if you're a DPS you do your role correctly, ect. Someone who knows from experience on what to do and what not to do. A good player learns from their mistakes and improves themselves and those around them, especially if they're a mentor helping their fellow players learn the ropes of the game.

[HyoMinPark]

What makes a good player is subjective, and it varies between individuals. Everyone is going to have a different definition of it, but I do think that a lot of people can come together to at least give a few traits that can universally define “good player”.

Here are some things that I personally think make a “good player”. For me, “good player” varies in definition depending on the type of content I am in, but I will start with listing traits that I think apply to all scenarios:
+ Is kind, courteous, and respectful to others; they never berate others
+ Is humble; they do not place themselves on a pedestal above other people
+ Offers respectful advice and constructive criticism on fights and/or job mechanics
+ Does their best to help new players through content as much as possible (e.g., explains important mechanics to look out for; if they’re a tank and they have a baby healer, they try to cater towards the healer’s comfort level with regards to pull size/greed; etc.)
+ Encourages people who are feeling a bit down about their performance (this includes giving positive pointers about what the person can do to make themselves feel a bit better, especially if they are feeling down about job performance)
+ When they make a mistake, they take responsibility for it instead of pointing fingers at other players
+ Has an adequate level of competence with regards to content (e.g., for dungeons, this means they have an adequate knowledge of the dungeon and important mechanics present; for Extremes/Savage/Ultimate, they have an intensive knowledge of the fight and fight mechanics)
+ Has an adequate level of competence with regards to their jobs (i.e., this means they have a decent knowledge of their job and can offer advice to learning players; in Savage, this means they know how to optimize their job to the best of its abilities)
+ Always has a desire to learn, and to do better (this applies to all content, but I mention it mostly with regards to higher-end content—e.g., when they know that there are things they can do to perform better in a piece of content, they actively seek out ways they can improve; ask for advice from more experienced players; study guides, logs, and POV videos; and they practice, practice, practice on those striking dummies and in a fight they are seeking to master)
+ They know when to not beat themselves up about mistakes; they accept that everyone makes mistakes, that it is a learning experience, and they try to take something positive from it

[Lynart]

EDIT: Looks like the poster above has the same opinion as me. Glad to see we think alike!

A good player is universal regardless of game or sport. As someone that has been involved in competitive gaming, motorsports, and lead projects regularly at work, here are some traits, in order of importance, that I strive to fulfill myself:

You can only control yourself
It doesn't matter how skilled one person is. You can't control someone to become worse so you can beat them. You can't control a teammate to become better either. This is a mindset adjustment and one that many, including myself, fail on a regular basis. Every time I feel like blaming someone else, I've failed. Every time I get tilted from an opponent, I've failed.

You are what you repeatedly do
If I blame others, I have become toxic and will cause the entire team to perform worse. If I identify someone else's fault without first finding a fault within myself, I am a hypocrite. I always try my best to look for my own faults before going off to criticize or advise somebody else. I have no right to condemn anyone if I am not perfect because if I were them, I'd be making the same mistakes.

Fail fast, hard, and often. Failure breeds humility and builds success
I can't count the number of times I have screwed up in ways that have resulted in raid wipes (I am a main tank, and have been for over 15 years.) I have also crashed every single season when racing motorcycles. I've also, literally, been criticized in a boardroom in front of many others for producing a completely incorrect prototype.

Rather than shifting the blame, I will acknowledge my own faults, and publicly apologize for them after I identify them to the audience. Through this, I have very rarely made the same mistake twice.

To win is to make peace
There was a time in the past where I would instantly tilt due to team mates being less skilled than me. This resulted in me yelling at them. It also resulted in everyone playing worse due to decreased morale as a direct response to my actions.

One time, at a race track, I chased a rider far faster than me because he smack talked me earlier. I wanted to show him I was faster, and that I could beat him. My inner self was not at peace but in fact at war. A side of me was telling me to slow down, but my ego wanted me to push. I ended up in the hospital.

In order to win on a team, the entire team needs to act as a unit and be at peace within themselves and amongst each other. The second that peace is disturbed, the chance of failure increases dramatically. And to gain peace, one must look deep within and control themselves first.
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On a far less serious note....I'll often go into dungeon's intoxicated and the very first thing I tell the group is "Hello, I am your MT. I'm also intoxicated. I am telling you all ahead of time to say sorry if I pull a little too big. Please don't hate!"

[Okamimaru]

To me a good player is friendly... since that's the only thing that really matters across every aspect of this game... I can deal with fork ups and wipes until the salt starts... friendly places give/take advice, respect each others limitations/time, and generally make all social interactions pleasant...

[Rogatum]

A good player in my eyes is a player that is enjoying their time with the game. Though personally being a good player and a skilled player do not necessarily go hand-in-hand. Also does not mean I would personally enjoy my time playing with such a good player, since that does mean if one player or a group friends is trolling someone either with rescue, cards, ice mage, and melee rdm etc . . . if they are having fun and enjoying their time with the game in my eyes they are a good player just not a player I will want to play with.

Hope that makes sense.

[kikix12]

I would suggest trying to diversify the "tags" given to players. It's just my opinion, but I'll throw it down here for consideration anyway.

Most people whose posts I have read in this thread seem to encompass a very wide spectrum of traits under the "good player" definition they use. Then, by extension, the opposite would need to be attributed to the "bad player". However this is very destructive to discussions and, more importantly, disrespectful to players that do not match either. Majority of the players do not. The definitions used here are so wide that barely anyone could possibly match them.

They encompass traits like "pleasant", "friendly", "skilled", "experienced", "knowledgeable", "social" and more. Basically they are idealizations. However, the terms "good" and "bad" player used in very serious discussions about strictly specific topics. This muddles those discussions and leads to misunderstandings and eventually to arguments.

Best definitions are short definitions, applying to as few aspects as possible. The ones present here are more suited for discussion about what is considered mandatory for an "ideal" player or "desired" player in my opinion. This all makes them also universal. The definitions used by many here apply only onto specific games (MMO's, and ones with little competitiveness to boot), while they ideally should be applicable to all games, including single-player games.


Well, this is my input. My definition is few posts up, so I won't repeat that. Please consider this as "food for thought" more than an attack of any sort. But...to each their own. If the above won't convince the one reading it...so be it.

[Asiragan]

This thread somewhat remind me of an old Dark Legacy Comics

Maybe out of topics, but for whose interested, here you go : http://www.darklegacycomics.com/408

[Tridus]

This thread somewhat remind me of an old Dark Legacy Comics

Maybe out of topics, but for whose interested, here you go : http://www.darklegacycomics.com/408

Perfect. You win the thread.

[Liam_Harper]

A good player would very rarely say: "I'm an awesome player, I'm perfect at my class".

A good player would likely say: "I'm decent, that last boss went well, but I still have plenty to learn and room for improvement".

A good player doesn't bash themselves and say "I lost agro once, I suck, I'm rubbish!", that's an unhealthy attitude towards learning from minor mistakes. The good player would be able to see a smooth run for what it is and look at the small mistake positively. "That went great, but I see where I can do an even better run next time, can't wait to try!"

A good player both listens to tactics openly and is able to analyse the fight themselves. End result is they know the encounter well and develop the optimal personal strategy through both experience and learning from others.

A good player doesn't expect to walk into a new encounter for the first time and sail through flawlessly. It's unrealistic and an unhealthy view that some players develop. "I beat it first time, it's easy for a good player like me, you'd suck if you didn't find that easy!". Chances are that player muddled through and got lucky, blind to a whole range of mechanics. The good player is on the lookout to see the encounter in detail.

A good player is friendly with their team and offers help in any way possible. This is vital. They recognize the team is what beats bosses, not one individual. Good morale and a relaxed group having fun will perform much better than a group harboring resentment and refusing to discuss tactics or ask for help due to fear of abuse.