MCH and Monk - Why is underplayed?

[SpeckledBurd]

I think it's a combination of factors for both of them, with a fair bit of crossover for both of them.



1. Overall aesthetic. The relatively plain hand to hand combatant/gunner are both aesthetics that don't really appeal to the sort of audience that FFXIV draws (IE, the JRPG fans/Anime Crowd). What that sort of player looks for in a job like monk would be Super Saiyan level impacts with every blow and kamehamehas, and Monk only does the latter every 30 seconds. Machinist with Stormblood certainly became more anime in its aesthetic with the heated shots, and I think that does show. A lot of the times people will sing the praises of Machinist's Stormblood animations even if they don't main it (myself included).

2. Barrier to entry. Both Monk and Machinist have a harder time leveling to 70 than other jobs. On Monk, soloing is a pain in the ass because of positionals, and Greased Lightning upkeep takes a bit of practice to become intuitive so losing it is very common while you're learning the job (especially if FFXIV is your first MMO as it was for me). Solo instances that would easier on other jobs are more difficult on Monk because of this. Machinist has a similar issue, except it's baked into the job design rather than the learning curve. Playing machinist from level 30-64 sucks. You get a gauge at level 52 you can't interact with for 12 levels, all of your skills including the signature Wildfire lack impact, TP drain in AOE is substantial for very low returns, with Spread Shot having one of the lowest Potencies of any AOE in the game (even if the Bishop Turret makes up for this, that damage is 'Invisible' to the average player since it comes from a pet). In both jobs cases, it just takes a long amount of play time before it starts feeling satisfying.

3. Top end jank. Both Machinist and Monk don't feel the best at the level cap. Monk of course has the much maligned Riddle of Fire as a critical action, cutting GCD recast in exchange for more power in a trade-off that has proved about as popular as Wanderer's Minuet's cast times did in Heavensward. After having one of the biggest penalties being the loss of a Haste for 68 levels, making it required for optimal play just feels bad. Machinist is even worse, having one of the stiffest, jankiest rotations in the game. Flamethrower for exactly 2 Server ticks, Overheat and immediately go into 10 seconds of intense GCD spam where a failure to cram 6 into those 10 seconds causes a substantial damage loss, and the reward for perfect execution is still less than other massively hitting skills like Midare Setsugekka...then go for 50 seconds of 1-1-1-2-1-1-2-3ing. Neither is satisfying for the majority of players.

[bustamanteverde]

Monk is my least favorite DPS. The positionals are annoying, & losing GL stacks is frustrating. It might get better at higher levels, but I would't know. Machinist feels OK so far, but the level 70 rotation is not something most people can figure out with a glance at the job guide.

Having left WoW and their version of Monk is spot on with Dragon punches, flurry of punches, lots of movement, strong attacks. FFXIV's Monk leaves so much to be desired. I enjoy the fast pace, combos are great, spell effects are stellar. The rub is the positionals just add frustration to an already meh job. An easy fix is to have every 3 combo be rear then flow into flank 3 hit combos, and back to 3 rear combos. Tornado kick still is so situational that you might as well leave it off your hot bars. Tornado kick seems almost iconic to monk, that or a flying kick like Yang. I hope SE takes a look at MNK sometime

[Lium]

I was actually planning on leveling a MCH soon. They look really cool, and I like their animations. So the posts in this thread are helpful.

As for MNK, I leveled a PGL up to 15 or so, then immediately ditched it to switch to ROG so I could unlock NIN.

I can’t speak for others, but wanting a ninja might have something to do with why you don’t see many monks. I mean, monks are cool and all, but ninjas are freaking ninjas!

[Ryaz]

I mained MCH in HW for a while. It was rough then, watching your Wildfire get lost to boss mechanics. Tried picking it up again in SB after I leveled my Samurai and after 1 level of playing, I haven't touched it since. The leveling experience with a heat gauge and zero way to control it is annoying. Having to reapply Gauss Barrel after every overheat is annoying. And I can't imagine the waste that flamethrower is when you basically only use it briefly to overheat yourself and try to cram all your damage into the next 10 seconds. 15 seconds was bad enough in HW. It's the only class I know of where one mistake can completely kill your DPS.

[KageTokage]

I keep wanting to like MCH, but for how little payoff it gives for how hard it is to execute its rotation properly, I have a hard time sticking with it.

Overheat is also just fundamentally not a fun mechanic to work with between how clunky it is to trigger and the fact that it's basically just another DPS cooldown in the end. If it gave you access to some special abilities while it's active, such a Deathflare-esque finisher that immediately puts you into cooldown mode but deals high damage then it might be more fun to work with.

The class at very least needs a ton of QoL changes to feel less clunky such as Gauss Barrel reapplying automatically, turrets not despawning after Overload and instead just being unable to attack, and Overheat not starting its countdown until Flamethrower ends to ensure that you can get the maximum number of GCDs off instead of having to rely on dodgy server ticks to know when to cancel it.

[Azerhan]

snip

Ha ha, feel the same too ! I want to drop it, but everytime I've tried, I end by playing it again...
However I really want to try SMN and why not, MNK, so this time, I'll give up on the MCH for 3 months, and then see.

[Fail]

For some reason I enjoy playing these two classes most. Though I switched to MCH because I got tired of maintaining my buffs as MNK.


Maybe it's BECAUSE of all that extra crap you have to do. I've seen others write about how BRD is way more fun, but it's so god damned boring for me. I guess people care more about pretty numbers than actually doing something.

[Neela]

Maybe it's BECAUSE of all that extra crap you have to do. I've seen others write about how BRD is way more fun, but it's so god damned boring for me. I guess people care more about pretty numbers than actually doing something.

most probably this... goal is max. output with min. afford. thats why mchs nowadays are "called" clunky like smn with 4.0 and their aether stacks. for most of the playerbase its not worth to take a hand on a critical/punishing cls at all - glad u enjoy mch for that exact reason instead *thumbsup* : )

[Rufalus]

Agreed with everyone else. Mch since 4.0 is too hard and clunky to use compared to alternatives. The way wildfire works puts a lot of pressure on getting timing and rotation exactly right in a tight window and it became harder to do that when overheating was added so there's one more thing to perfectly align. Can play any other job and not have usability problems.


Monk is almost great but has competition from jobs that synergise better in a party or have more enjoyable new skills. I'm not a hardcore raider so I don't care much about party synergy and utility that nin/drg bring, but on a fun factor I think samurai is maybe a little bit ahead for casual content.

[Caitlyn]

MCH:
+ Satisfying bursts every 60s
+ Feels powerful while pretty much completely mobile
+ Very high damage when played well, more personal DPS than BRD.
+/- Doesn't synergise as well with some other DPS compared to BRD in what it offers, but lines up better with buffs from others, especially NIN and RDM (BRD's burst every 80s, MCH every 60)
- Flamethrower feels clunky
- Awkward leveling experience where it feels distinctly incomplete until level 70.
- Steep learning curve, takes practice to get the hang of certain timings (which you also can't do until Level 70).
- Feels punishing when you screw up / die.

Well, totally agree and want to add a few points:

+ Fun to play
+ MCH skills are so cool

- Highly RNG based (Crits, Procs) and tunnel vision on your interface
- Server ticks and ping affecting your burst and overall DPS (Overheat, Wildfire, Overdrive, s.o.)
- Personal DPS highly depends on other classes (DRG for piercing, NIN TA, s.o.)
- SquareEnix messed up twice (with Heavensward and Stormblood release) and still doesnt know how to fix it
- Gauss Barell still destroying your glamour
- Many guns are so ugly
- Heavensward MCH was still better


Conclusion: still playing MCH, even when SE gonna destroying it with the next Add-On again!