MCH and Monk - Why is underplayed?

[Seraphor]

I think MCH is rather underpowered, which is one contributing factor to it being underused.

Two things I think they should do for MCH is bring back Lead Shot, their DoT that was removed with Stormblood.

They don't need a DoT when they have turrets.

[CaptainLagbeard]

They don't need a DoT when they have turrets.

I don't think the turret alone matches both Stormbite and Caustic Bite.

[Popotato]

I don't think the turret alone matches both Stormbite and Caustic Bite.

It doesn't, and it's not meant to. Yet, MCH still outdamages BRD at all percentiles. It doesn't need a DoT to match BRD's DoTs, because it's a different job.

[Sylvain]

I'm not gonna comment on the viability (because it's obviously not a reason why people play the job or not since most people are casual. If people only cared about numbers we wouldn't see that many DRK, RDM and BLMlastpatch)


For me at least, I've always enjoyed gadget classes. In GW2 my first class was the Engineer and the MCH is the second DPS i attempted (BLM being my leveling job in HW).
But I just couldn't enjoy the job, in HW the rotation and gameplay felt bland. Now it's better, I really like the Heat system and visual associated with it, but ultimately, FF14 MCh feels like a Gunner and NOT a MACHINist. The turret serves virtually zero purpose beside dps (and a debuff if you will....) It's just there, (a bit like SMN pet but worse), you just put it at the beggining of the fight and voila.

Feeling and visual are a big factor for many players. Not just the numbers and rotation (altough rotation is very important I'd say). So perhaps not so many players play it because :
1 - It's more of a Gunner than anything, basically the selling point of the job (Turrets at the very least) is just fluff and boring.
2 - Number wise it's great but it requires a lot of effort for very little pay off compaired to BRD for instance
3 - As far as I can tell, many people don't seem to enjoy the mechanics, either wildfire or heat, or both.

The job got a descent rework in SB but I think it needs a "deeper" rework. Like on the core fondation.

For Monk my guess is that they somewhat ruined the fast paced feeling associated with the job in SB... I dunno

[SpeckledBurd]

I think it's a combination of factors for both of them, with a fair bit of crossover for both of them.



1. Overall aesthetic. The relatively plain hand to hand combatant/gunner are both aesthetics that don't really appeal to the sort of audience that FFXIV draws (IE, the JRPG fans/Anime Crowd). What that sort of player looks for in a job like monk would be Super Saiyan level impacts with every blow and kamehamehas, and Monk only does the latter every 30 seconds. Machinist with Stormblood certainly became more anime in its aesthetic with the heated shots, and I think that does show. A lot of the times people will sing the praises of Machinist's Stormblood animations even if they don't main it (myself included).

2. Barrier to entry. Both Monk and Machinist have a harder time leveling to 70 than other jobs. On Monk, soloing is a pain in the ass because of positionals, and Greased Lightning upkeep takes a bit of practice to become intuitive so losing it is very common while you're learning the job (especially if FFXIV is your first MMO as it was for me). Solo instances that would easier on other jobs are more difficult on Monk because of this. Machinist has a similar issue, except it's baked into the job design rather than the learning curve. Playing machinist from level 30-64 sucks. You get a gauge at level 52 you can't interact with for 12 levels, all of your skills including the signature Wildfire lack impact, TP drain in AOE is substantial for very low returns, with Spread Shot having one of the lowest Potencies of any AOE in the game (even if the Bishop Turret makes up for this, that damage is 'Invisible' to the average player since it comes from a pet). In both jobs cases, it just takes a long amount of play time before it starts feeling satisfying.

3. Top end jank. Both Machinist and Monk don't feel the best at the level cap. Monk of course has the much maligned Riddle of Fire as a critical action, cutting GCD recast in exchange for more power in a trade-off that has proved about as popular as Wanderer's Minuet's cast times did in Heavensward. After having one of the biggest penalties being the loss of a Haste for 68 levels, making it required for optimal play just feels bad. Machinist is even worse, having one of the stiffest, jankiest rotations in the game. Flamethrower for exactly 2 Server ticks, Overheat and immediately go into 10 seconds of intense GCD spam where a failure to cram 6 into those 10 seconds causes a substantial damage loss, and the reward for perfect execution is still less than other massively hitting skills like Midare Setsugekka...then go for 50 seconds of 1-1-1-2-1-1-2-3ing. Neither is satisfying for the majority of players.

[Lium]

I was actually planning on leveling a MCH soon. They look really cool, and I like their animations. So the posts in this thread are helpful.

As for MNK, I leveled a PGL up to 15 or so, then immediately ditched it to switch to ROG so I could unlock NIN.

I can’t speak for others, but wanting a ninja might have something to do with why you don’t see many monks. I mean, monks are cool and all, but ninjas are freaking ninjas!

[Ryaz]

I mained MCH in HW for a while. It was rough then, watching your Wildfire get lost to boss mechanics. Tried picking it up again in SB after I leveled my Samurai and after 1 level of playing, I haven't touched it since. The leveling experience with a heat gauge and zero way to control it is annoying. Having to reapply Gauss Barrel after every overheat is annoying. And I can't imagine the waste that flamethrower is when you basically only use it briefly to overheat yourself and try to cram all your damage into the next 10 seconds. 15 seconds was bad enough in HW. It's the only class I know of where one mistake can completely kill your DPS.

[KageTokage]

I keep wanting to like MCH, but for how little payoff it gives for how hard it is to execute its rotation properly, I have a hard time sticking with it.

Overheat is also just fundamentally not a fun mechanic to work with between how clunky it is to trigger and the fact that it's basically just another DPS cooldown in the end. If it gave you access to some special abilities while it's active, such a Deathflare-esque finisher that immediately puts you into cooldown mode but deals high damage then it might be more fun to work with.

The class at very least needs a ton of QoL changes to feel less clunky such as Gauss Barrel reapplying automatically, turrets not despawning after Overload and instead just being unable to attack, and Overheat not starting its countdown until Flamethrower ends to ensure that you can get the maximum number of GCDs off instead of having to rely on dodgy server ticks to know when to cancel it.

[Azerhan]

snip

Ha ha, feel the same too ! I want to drop it, but everytime I've tried, I end by playing it again...
However I really want to try SMN and why not, MNK, so this time, I'll give up on the MCH for 3 months, and then see.

[Fail]

For some reason I enjoy playing these two classes most. Though I switched to MCH because I got tired of maintaining my buffs as MNK.


Maybe it's BECAUSE of all that extra crap you have to do. I've seen others write about how BRD is way more fun, but it's so god damned boring for me. I guess people care more about pretty numbers than actually doing something.