MCH and Monk - Why is underplayed?

[CrimsonDark]

I play a few months and seefew people playing monk or mch. why? is weak in the current patch?

could tell me the strength and weaknesses of these jobs?

I'm searching for a new main job. I thought about tank / healer too, but it must be hard for solo quest.

[Mhaeric]

MCH is underplayed for a variety of reasons. One is that it is one of the more complicated jobs to play successfully, and isn't something someone can just sit down and figure out the basics of in a few minutes. And when the job is finally learned well, its dps is highly subject to your latency and mechanics that interrupt combat. There's nothing worse than a Wildfire burst that gets ruined by a hit of lag or a boss jump. There's also a bit of stigma attached to it, since when it was released it was generally though to be under-powered and with some less than effective mechanics. It has had quite a few adjustments since then to finally exist in a good spot in the last several patches, but the damage to its reputation was done and the stigma carries on. Plus, once someone chooses a main, they're more likely to stick with that main than change it so the low numbers now are reflective of the low numbers from back when it wasn't as good of a job to play.

[Dualgunner]

Can confirm what Mhaeric said. Its playstyle of building to a burst and keeping all of one's cooldowns in-line is not what everybody likes doing, either. But from personal experience, the job feels really good when pulled off well.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Machinist requires a ridiculous amount of micromanagement for what many consider clunky gameplay at best. A frequent complaint is a lack of flow between each ability, almost as though they are add odds with one another in terms of functionality. Flamethrower is, perhaps, the most notable offender. Optimal use is to cut the cast at five seconds... which is just silly design.

Monk, meanwhile, struggles primarily due to the sheer dominance of utility in this game. Dragoon and Ninja simply offer more in Trick Attack, Battle Litany, Disembowel, Shadewalker and Smokescreen. Another contributing factor is Monk's gameplay has evolved little beyond its ARR iteration, which has caused plenty to find it stale. Stormblood attempted to encourage Fist stances but Tackle Mastery proved to be such a laughable disaster, it basically changed nothing. That being said, Monk's 4.1 buffs brought it much closer to its melee counterparts.

[Popotato]

Machinist requires a ridiculous amount of micromanagement for what many consider clunky gameplay at best.

Everything else you say I can agree with, but MCH has very little micromanagement to it. The only part that is dynamic about a MCH's rotation are procs, and even then you force them with ammo. Ever since MCH heat generation was changed to 5 heat, heat management is a complete non-factor. If you are using a 2 ammo rotation, you won't even need to press Cooldown between Wildfires.

Optimal MCH oGCD usage boils down to pressing them as soon as they come off cooldown. There is no decision making whatsoever with their usage. What this also results in is a rotation that doesn't change at all. Every 60s playing the job will be the exact same 60s.

With all that considered, MCH micromanagement basically boils down to A) reacting to procs (which includes optimal WF setup based on current procs) and B) looking at cooldowns. That amount of micromanagement isn't any more than a job like RDM. When there are jobs like BRD and NIN in this game, you really can't say the MCH has high micromanagement.

[Aeliott]

Mained MNK in 2.X and got bored in HW, switched to MCH in 3.X, in 4.X found it clunky and...basically yeah confirming the above :P

With MNK though I think it's the most fun it's ever been, but RoF is a jarring skill that most people despise for lowering speed temporarily, or at best tolerate. While Brotherhood is nice, the 4.1 buff to affect self didn't make waves, but I think it has become more desirable since. It just hasn't really ignited a spark in amount of people picking it up when they didn't before.

While all these posts are highlighting main flaws and reasons why people wouldn't want to main them though - note that both are still good jobs, and played well nobody will scorn you at all if they're what you want to play. For pros: MNK is very active and fun, if you don't mind the temporary speed penalty of RoF - getting lots of Chakra procs under Brotherhood feels good and they have among the biggest personal DPS along with SAM and BLM. MCH also has some satisfyingly big numbers when you get the hang of it, if you don't mind the clunky feeling of Flamethrower, and get a feel for how to best correct yourself when you die / need to adjust your timings for certain events. I do really really like MCH, though not as much as in 3.X, and after getting accustomed to the new version, I'd probably still main it if not for the fact that I feel much better and confident on BRD - pumping similar numbers that are a fraction lower, but not getting as overwhelmed sometimes and feeling worse for mistakes. But that's a personal thing. Dismantle, MCH's enemy damage dampener, is also a super under-rated skill.

Neither job is weak!

MNK:
+ Fast paced
+ Easy to learn, moderate to master
+ Very high damage
+ Very good AOE
- Losing GL stacks feels awful
- Crit proc RNG which is sometimes annoying
- Overshadowed by DRG and NIN in hardcore comps but still very respectable

MCH:
+ Satisfying bursts every 60s
+ Feels powerful while pretty much completely mobile
+ Very high damage when played well, more personal DPS than BRD.
+/- Doesn't synergise as well with some other DPS compared to BRD in what it offers, but lines up better with buffs from others, especially NIN and RDM (BRD's burst every 80s, MCH every 60)
- Flamethrower feels clunky
- Awkward leveling experience where it feels distinctly incomplete until level 70.
- Steep learning curve, takes practice to get the hang of certain timings (which you also can't do until Level 70).
- Feels punishing when you screw up / die.

[Caitlyn]

MCH:
+ Satisfying bursts every 60s
+ Feels powerful while pretty much completely mobile
+ Very high damage when played well, more personal DPS than BRD.
+/- Doesn't synergise as well with some other DPS compared to BRD in what it offers, but lines up better with buffs from others, especially NIN and RDM (BRD's burst every 80s, MCH every 60)
- Flamethrower feels clunky
- Awkward leveling experience where it feels distinctly incomplete until level 70.
- Steep learning curve, takes practice to get the hang of certain timings (which you also can't do until Level 70).
- Feels punishing when you screw up / die.

Well, totally agree and want to add a few points:

+ Fun to play
+ MCH skills are so cool

- Highly RNG based (Crits, Procs) and tunnel vision on your interface
- Server ticks and ping affecting your burst and overall DPS (Overheat, Wildfire, Overdrive, s.o.)
- Personal DPS highly depends on other classes (DRG for piercing, NIN TA, s.o.)
- SquareEnix messed up twice (with Heavensward and Stormblood release) and still doesnt know how to fix it
- Gauss Barell still destroying your glamour
- Many guns are so ugly
- Heavensward MCH was still better


Conclusion: still playing MCH, even when SE gonna destroying it with the next Add-On again!

[Neela]

Conclusion: still playing MCH, even when SE gonna destroying it with the next Add-On again!

thats the spirit! :3

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Monk's unpopularity simply comes down to it being underwhelming, really.
Its just so....bori to look at, and aesthetically they have both going for them against icon jobs like DRG and SAM.

It doesn't help that they haven't changed since ARR.
While DRG had more combos, abilities and mechanics added to them and Ninja had their Ninjutsu tightened up and things added to them, Monk is exactly the same. No new combos, no new mechanics. Just boring oGCDs that you press every now and then.

[zuzu-bq]

A lot of people just hate how Stormblood MCH is played.