DPS Balance Thread

[Remedi]

TA is strong, but Disembowel gives ~300 DPS for 1 ranged, and ~600 DPS for 2. The benefits of Disembowel over TA is more if you have double-ranged. And TA is not as beneficial to casters compared to physical jobs because they do not have autos to also benefit for the duration (and the same applies for Litany).

TA is good, but the physical meta is held together by piercing. It was the case in Creator, and it is still the case now. Triple melee only works because MNK was buffed. It wasn’t really viable during Deltascape, but it can be for certain floors of Sigmascape (V7S you probably do not want triple melee because of the Ink and Chakras—someone has to disengage between the melee DPS and the tanks—it’s not impossible, but someone is going to be losing uptime).

Yes, but piercing is easily fixed by either removing it or even better adding it to another job since 2 piercing don't stack, TA stacks with hypercharge and even if 2 jobs have access to it they can use it one after another which means you can't really fix it by spreading it.
Now beside that triple melee comp is creeping to the double ranged meta thanks to MNK buffs, which means that realistically speaking piercing is as strong as it was because you can drop one ranged (MCH realistically) when you consider all opf this in a vacuum only 1 class really stands out for beign always needed, that's why I say that atm piercing is kinda of a red herring
Also take consideration I'm considering without forced mechanics from a fight, fight plays a later hand in balance realistically speaking

[HyperiusUltima]

So...given we already have the issues, what do we suggest they fix?

- Trick Attack: 10% Damage Up 10s duration.
This could be nerfed down to 5% to ensure that MCH has a place, given they also have a 5% except on a longer Cooldown and longer duration due to the refreshing from the turret. Only thing that NIN would have over everyone else is literally enmity mitigation.

- Disembowel: 5% Piercing Down Debuff. 100% Uptime all day everyday.
Removing all type debuffs as we think we should effects the entire way the game is perceived, since damage will be reduced and have to be compensated across all jobs that are effected(All Roles exempting Casters). DRG would also have to get its 10% Heavy Thrust back so that it'd get a bit more Solo to compensate.

That's only what I could think of that would fix some of our problems and open up the roster more, but I want to bet there's more problems the further down the rabbit hole we go with this in regards to rDPS.

[Aomine1992]

I believe piercing just needs to be removed all together and buff the physical range guy a little bit so that they arnt gimped without it, TA needs to be nerfed and then buff NIN personal dps, they had to nerf those AST cards becuase they were OP it's time to look at the meta comp dps if they ever plan on giving any other dps a chance becuase even if they make new ones if they don't fit the meta they will just sit on the bench with the rest..

[Remedi]

I believe piercing just needs to be removed all together and buff the physical range guy a little bit so that they arnt gimped without it, TA needs to be nerfed and then buff NIN personal dps, they had to nerf those AST cards becuase they were OP it's time to look at the meta comp dps if they ever plan on giving any other dps a chance becuase even if they make new ones if they don't fit the meta they will just sit on the bench with the rest..

They said they balance ranged dps without disembowel beign a factor, which means that if they remove it they won't get any compensation only DRG will

[Legion88]

Doesn't Disembowel also buff the DRG?
If so, the 300 DPS gain would be for 2 and for 3 it would only be around 450.
Or is my math wrong???

[Powercow]

Doesn't Disembowel also buff the DRG?
If so, the 300 DPS gain would be for 2 and for 3 it would only be around 450.
Or is my math wrong???

Sorta yeah, but generally when people talk about raid DPS contribution people aren't looking at stuff that you apply that you benefit from. For example, when we compare the raid gains of Trick Attack, we're not factoring in the Ninja benefiting from it, nor would we apply something like Heavy Thrust for the dragoon as raid DPS contribution.

In the most technical sense, yes, more personal DPS does mean more raid DPS, but that's a whole different conversation.

[Legion88]

Sorta yeah, but generally when people talk about raid DPS contribution people aren't looking at stuff that you apply that you benefit from. For example, when we compare the raid gains of Trick Attack, we're not factoring in the Ninja benefiting from it, nor would we apply something like Heavy Thrust for the dragoon as raid DPS contribution.

In the most technical sense, yes, more personal DPS does mean more raid DPS, but that's a whole different conversation.

So no one is seeing that with the loose of the DRG you technically only loose ~150 rDPS, if the replacement has the same pDPS like the DRG?
And no one is taking this into its calculation?

[Powercow]

So no one is seeing that with the loose of the DRG you technically only loose ~150 rDPS, if the replacement has the same pDPS like the DRG?
And no one is taking this into its calculation?

Ohh my bad I misunderstood you. No, the 300 lost DPS is per ranged physical class. DRG gives ~300 with the inclusion of MCH or BRD, and ~600 with the inclusion of both.

[Legion88]

Ohh my bad I misunderstood you. No, the 300 lost DPS is per ranged physical class. DRG gives ~300 with the inclusion of MCH or BRD, and ~600 with the inclusion of both.

I see now how you are calculating.
You take 5% from 6k pDPS of a Ranged.

The raid calculator only appears to calculate damage you provide the raid, thus Piercing is exclusively accounting for BRD/MCH since DRG buffing itself is considered personal DPS. This is why Slashing never shows since Ninja and Warrior provide it, which buffs themselves. Sure, Paladin and Dark Knight are benefited, but the calculator can't allocate Slashing to one specific job when upwards of three provide it. So they just exclude Slashing.

Oh, there is a tool for this. I never found it.

To the Disembowel "problem":
If you consider piercing down is a 100% uptime debuff it is really strong and focused, what leads to the Ranged META. I think schould be nerfed or removed.
For example the BRD Songs are also 100% uptime but only a 2% crit rate and maybe the same in DPS.
The other 100% uptime debuffs/buffs are slashing and blunt, while every gainer also can apply it himself and the application is always tied into the rotation anyway and the gain is most likely already in the calculation for their pDPS from the beginning, so you can neglect this as real raid buffs and view them more like selfbuffs. Yeah DRK and PLD can't apply it themself, but i think they wont went in a comp without NIN, WAR or SAM.

With lowering the effectiveness of Disembowel down to 2 - 3% and rescaling DRG/BRD/MCH to the same pDPS like now and done.
Or maybe remove piercing down completely from Disembowel and merge it with Heavy Thrust and rescale DRG/BRD/MCH to the same pDPS like now and done.

I also think that all this "weapon type resistance down" should be removed (or just merged to "physical resistance down"), this could also break Disembowel for Ranged.

[HyoMinPark]

So no one is seeing that with the loose of the DRG you technically only loose ~150 rDPS, if the replacement has the same pDPS like the DRG?
And no one is taking this into its calculation?

~300 DPS is per ranged, so per BRD and per MCH—~600 total if a comp is DRG/BRD/MCH. rDPS doesn’t calculate the self-buff Disembowel gives DRG. Much like how it will not calculate Blunt and Slashing, since only MNK gives Blunt, and there will rarely ever be a case where there isn’t at least one job applying Slashing in a party (WAR, NIN, and SAM all carry it).

Also, Brotherhood is physical only too, but Brotherhood is its own weird box of awkwardness, albeit less so since it got buffed.

You are right. That slipped my mind since it’s so late, and I’m tired after the fun that was trying for a weekly 2 chest God Kefka on Saturday night. Strangely enough, WAR cares far more for Brotherhood than Litany and Battle Voice since IR was made the best offensive buff in the game, basically.