I want to talk about tempering

[ObsidianFire]

The Ananta Best Tribe quests reveal that most of the Qualyana come to think that Lakshmi, the eikon, isn't really the goddess either and they stop fallowing the tempered daughter. The Ananta situation is the opposite of most of the beast tribes by the end of 4.2. The "fringe" group is the Ananta that are tempered and might summon an eikon while the majority of the tribe don't want that to happen. If anyone had to represent the majority of the Ananta in Ala Mhigo it wouldn't be someone who was tempered now.

[Eloah]

Wait isn't the echo different from the blessing of light which is given by hydaelyn?

While I believe the two are distinct, I think the Blessing stems from the Echo. I guess the Echo is like a seed, and through our actions does it become the Blessing. Of those we know, who have the Echo, besides us, only Ysayle could be said to have had the blessing as well; since she had a crystal. But I can't say for sure, and don't wanna connects dots that aren't there. My interpritation is like the golden ticket, almost anyone can buy a chocolate bar, but only 6 willl get the ticket.

[Anonymoose]

That sounds about right to me. The starter-theory I had hasn't really required much maintenance and is still holding out, but I think I can recall most of it off the top of my head without needed to dig for quotes of myself, lol.

Layer 1: The Echo
Granted to many. Most notice that something is amiss, but not everyone even realizes they have it. Some misinterpret it, some are labeled as eccentric, some are alienated from their communities for "strange powers". Some ignore the call, or fail to ever find from whence it came. Some just go on living. Some die. Minfilia tried to gather and protect these people, to identify their gifts and their then-unknown source, but she didn't save everyone. Without her, I'm sure people are slipping through the cracks even now.

Layer 2: Bearer of the Light
Those who answer Her call and take up Her cause receive a gift - a Crystal of Light - a sliver of Her power. These seem to be most of the heroes of legend, and includes people today like Ysayle and Krile. Sometimes called "Warriors of Light", but like when this title is applied those who vanished in the Calamity, it's not necessarily the same as THE Warrior of Light.

Layer 3: Hydaelyn's Champion
Extraordinary merits, blessing beyond the Echo, though poorly understood. This "Champion" seems to be chosen based on strength, potential, and Her discretion / need. She doesn't make them strong, but chose them because they are strong and further augments their power with Her own.

Unlike the Bearers of the Light, the true Warrior of Light can somehow interfere with the aetherial realm (apparently unconsciously by the look of our character when it happens) and manifest Crystals of Light. (Lahabrea's exact words.) Our strength somehow draws them to us, and it seems like even if they go dim (Midgardsormr, Warriors of Darkness), unlike everyone else who drains them, ours spontaneously "refill" and glow anew.

Midgardsormr specified that the Champion status was something other than the Echo and sealed the blessing without taking it away, so they're definitely different, but the exact nature is...nebulous. The divine intervention of Hydaelyn, often called "the blessing of Light", seems to go through the Crystals of Light, as if she's using them to project Her power from the aetherial realm into the corporeal realm at great personal cost.

But that's just shooting from the hip based on our limited pool of sample events.

[Alleo]

My problem with the Ananta and Lyse situation was more about the: Why did nobody of the scion check out the people that are in touch with them and see if they are tempered? Thanks to the beast tribe quest we do know that not all of them had been tempered (and that they would have died without our help) so I can now understand why they have invited them. But we have Ysthola with her eyes and their googles that seem to be able to see if they are tempered or not..and yet nobody has thought that they maybe should check up on those that are there for the security?

I would be fine with such a mistake if the scions were not there but they were and they know about tempering and how its not something that could be changed and that it will always keep the ones that are tempered with the wish to summon/serve their primal and do everything to achieve that..Honestly after all was done I just wanted to have my character do the biggest facepalm ever..

[LineageRazor]

Why did nobody of the scion check out the people that are in touch with them and see if they are tempered?

How do you tell? Unless I'm misremembering, nowhere in the story has anyone come up with a device that you can scan someone with and say, "Yup, they're tempered." You tell that an individual is tempered by their actions - and tempered who are trying to pass themselves off as normal are going to act, well, normal. Being tempered does not compel an individual to behave every minute like some kind of raving loony. Their behavior may not change at all, in fact, aside from the fact that they are now unswervably loyal to the Primal that tempered them.

Essentially, tempered individuals are just about as close as you can get to perfect spies, undetectable unless you actually catch them in the act.

I don't believe that the story mentioned that these individuals had been knowingly in touch with the Qalyana. It was implied that they had been abducted and tempered, most likely while they were traveling away from town for various reasons. (And, of course, once the Qalyana managed to temper a few, those few could have lured others out to be tempered, as well.) Since you can't detect whether someone has been tempered or not, do you suspect every individual who has ever traveled outside of town? And if you do suspect all of them, how do you keep tabs on them all?

No, while it makes perfect sense to be wary of the Qalyana - and they WERE wary - the Qaylana plan was a GOOD one. Insisting that the alliance should have been able to anticipate it is nothing more than 20/20 hindsight. You can be reasonably confident that they won't be making the same mistake twice.

[TinyRedLeaf]

How do you tell? Unless I'm misremembering, nowhere in the story has anyone come up with a device that you can scan someone with and say, "Yup, they're tempered."

Unfortunately, at least one Scion could have detected the tempered, namely the aethersight-gifted Y'shtola. This was what she said in the aftermath of the qalyana's summoning of Lakshmi at the peace talks:

A primal's servant is betrayed by his aura. If you mean to conduct an investigation, I can identify any others acting under Sri Lakshmi's influence.

To be sure, Raubahn himself conceded that they "were all caught unawares", adding that they'll take the incident "as a lesson, and watch our own more carefully in future". He was specifically referring to the Alliance's own soldiers who helped smuggle the crystals into the throne room. It really does appear that the Alliance were caught with their pants down this one time, as it did not occur to any of them to check their own ranks for tempered individuals.

The sobering lesson, it seems, is that the tempered could in fact disguise their mental state well enough to pass for ordinary. That may seem like an obvious mistake in hindsight, but it has to be seen in, I believe, in the context of the Alliance's experience with Eorzean primals: All the tempered so far usually display clearly warped behaviour, due to the nature of their tempering by their respective primals.

Lakshmi was different, as others had pointed out. Her summoning was based on the desire to forget grief by losing oneself in an illusion of bliss, and not so much in a desire to protect or expand a tribe's influence. The nature of her tempering was likely affected as a result.

[Alleo]

Unfortunately, at least one Scion could have detected the tempered, namely the aethersight-gifted Y'shtola. This was what she said in the aftermath of the qalyana's summoning of Lakshmi at the peace talks:

Exactly she states that she could see the influence and the scions have been working against the primals for a longer time. I can accept that the alliance themselves might have taken it to lightly but the scions should have known better (imo). At least our character was able to state that this might not be a good idea and in my head she just looks at them and think "I told you so".

[SannaR]

So, one person who up to the end of 4.0 was recovering from a blow Zenos gave them was supposed to not only assume when the invites went out that there might be some tempered people in their ranks but also hunt them down? To me that makes less sense. I mean she'd have to be caught up first and we don't know if she left post 4.0 victory. Also how taxing on her would it be? We don't fully understand how her new eyes work. Just that she got told not to tax herself with using the power she's gained from them or she'll die quicker.

[Remedi]

I guess we'll know when she'll be close to death by overusing them tbh, that's what I feel about her actual condition

[Iscah]

There’s also the question of how easily her aether-sight can detect tempering - can she tell “at a glance” or does she have to look carefully (and possibly use more of her power) to see the difference?

And yes, the effect on her lifespan is likely to come into play at a critical moment, I think.