Quit Ruining The General Discussions

[RiyahArp]

1. If you want a big happy place, trust me, they get boring. The negative threads get prominence because there is nothing to talk about in game, because there is very little content we all haven't done 5 million times. Look at the reddit right now, most of the posts are boring trivia.

2. It gets heated because these things matter. All the people defending stuff gives SE the go-ahead to keep doing it. People get mad about whales because they have seen what games that cater to whales in other games become over time. Whales is a general term though, it just means high spenders.

3. This would just devolve into approved negative threads. If negativity needs to go, stfu about how hard savage is or how bad pugs and duty finder are.

[Sigma-Astra]

2. It gets heated because these things matter. All the people defending stuff gives SE the go-ahead to keep doing it. People get mad about whales because they have seen what games that cater to whales in other games become over time. Whales is a general term though, it just means high spenders.

Then, why can't people just say high spenders or people with more of a disposable income? Why do we need to use derogatory names to section off a portion of the playerbase that's capable of purchasing optional content just because a choice few cannot or will not? Should the people that you're calling "whales" start calling the other side as "entitled, whining children" for wanting it free in-game, cheaper, or not at all? Should that side start calling those people "cheapskates"?

The answer is no on both accounts. We need to stop the name-calling and insulting of other players just because they can spend money on something they want and you want at the same time, but you're not willing to pay for it at it's full price or don't want it there period.

[RiyahArp]

Then, why can't people just say high spenders or people with more of a disposable income? .

Whales is game dev jargon for that. It dates back to 2011, from this site, although I think the term was used in casinos earlier:

http://www.gamesbrief.com/2011/11/wh...-to-play-game/

The term kind of works a bit better because it illustrates the impact of those players as "size" and games generally fish for players to obtain and retain. It showed a truth visually that not all players in a F2P game are equal. It's not derogatory in itself, any more than calling someone who barely shops a minnow is.

A lot of the bad blood for whales comes from players experience where high spenders get serious power boosts or benefit that other players can't match. Like Whales, those players are huge fish in the sea of your game and dominate it. F2P games in general tend to suffer tremendously in endgame because of it; the game dev and critic Ramin Shokirizade had a great analogy describing whale endgame as a high stakes poker game, where players ante up and keep "bidding" by spending money to win the server till they have to fold, and the losers often move to the next game.

Its jargon that I don't think is meant derogatorily orginally, as devs really chase whales. It kind of evolved that way, but whale captures f2p spenders pretty accurately as a concept.

A single LARGE megathread revolving around the topic that's up for discussion is a far more organized way of going about it. Honestly, this side of the community could stand to take notes from the Japan community when it comes to topic discussions. More focus on megathreads instead of a bunch of smallers ones that clutter the first page.

No, it's not better. Overwatch official forums often have megathreads, and they get just as ignored too. If people were honest, they'd say megathreads are better precisely because they are easily ignorable for people who don't want to see stuff.

[Sigma-Astra]

Whales is gave dev jargon for that. It dates back to 2011, from this site, although I think the term was used in casinos earlier:

http://www.gamesbrief.com/2011/11/wh...-to-play-game/

Just because one random person says it's okay to use, doesn't mean you should follow them. I know the internet allows a certain degree of transparency since you'll never meet or see the person on the other side of the screen, but regardless of who started it, it's rude and was never meant to be used to describe other people in a positive light. I don't care what bigshot started it. Enough with using it if you don't want to be insulted back either by the people you are labeling. No one likes being labeled.

Even the person in that article who wrote it doesn't like the unflattering connotations that the word itself portrays and doesn't like it being used to describe people and would prefer the idea of "true fans" or something else entirely.

When you're using the term "whale" to argue about people that are buying something that you want, but can't afford it outright or you're trying to pin all of the game's current problems onto them, then yes, it turns into a derogatory slang and insult. And people on the OF use it often enough as such...

Just call those people large spenders, you're saying the same thing without sounding so offensive or aggressive about it. Otherwise, you're opening yourself up towards the "whales" calling you unsavory terms as well, at least the more spiteful ones anyways.

/2cents

[Tiraelina]

Just because one random person says it's okay to use, doesn't mean you should follow them. I know the internet allows a certain degree of transparency since you'll never meet or see the person on the other side of the screen, but regardless of who started it, it's rude and was never meant to be used to describe other people in a positive light. I don't care what bigshot started it. Enough with using it if you don't want to be insulted back either by the people you are labeling. No one likes being labeled.

Even the person in that article who wrote it doesn't like the unflattering connotations that the word itself portrays and doesn't like it being used to describe people and would prefer the idea of "true fans" or something else entirely.

When you're using the term "whale" to argue about people that are buying something that you want, but can't afford it outright or you're trying to pin all of the game's current problems onto them, then yes, it turns into a derogatory slang and insult. And people on the OF use it often enough as such...

Just call those people large spenders, you're saying the same thing without sounding so offensive or aggressive about it. Otherwise, you're opening yourself up towards the "whales" calling you unsavory terms as well, at least the more spiteful ones anyways.

/2cents

It wasn't one random person saying it. It's the entire industry these cash shops are originating. This is why you shouldn't be sticking your neck out for a business. Just because the guy they put out front seems friendly enough doesn't mean the people in back see you as anything more than a source of revenue.

I will also point out that threads like this do nothing except add to the pollution. If the CM/Mods were doing more than cross-posting JP dev replies maybe all the extra threads would get moved/merged/locked. Maybe actually fish out a response... But they don't, so you have to live with it.

[Sigma-Astra]

It wasn't one random person saying it. It's the entire industry these cash shops are originating. This is why you shouldn't be sticking your neck out for a business. Just because the guy they put out front seems friendly enough doesn't mean the people in back see you as anything more than a source of revenue.

It doesn't matter who offers the higher amount of revenue or not, if you have to label a good portion of the playerbase with an unsavory term to describe them in a negative light in order to make your argument, you're insulting them. The same can be said for labeling every single Savage player as an "elitist". It's name-calling, nothing more than that. Not every person who uses the cash shop is a "whale" which is the same that not every Savage player is an "elitist". You have your bad and good portions of people in both categories.

If I come across a person spending insane amounts of money within the cash shop, I don't call them a whale. It's their money, their right to spend it as they see freely. Do I agree with their spending habits? No, absolutely not. Should I try to butt in? Probably not, they won't listen to me either way. People spend their money as they see fit. If I come across a person in Savage that's being a jerk, I don't call them an elitist. I simply say they're being overly hostile and rude. I also don't look at every Savage raider and cash shop buyer as some evil portion of the playerbase because of the labels that people like to use.

As for sticking my neck out for a business? I'm not. It's a business, they stand to make a profit, of course they're going to look at me as a source of revenue. Any company, does that. My electric company doesn't care if I can't pay the bill on time, they'll shut my electricity off. They don't care if I have a cancer patient to take care of. They're providing a service, I can either pay for it or say goodbye to turning on the lights. That's how a profit business operates. You are a source of revenue for them, it's how they stay in business period. They're not here to make friends or play nice, they're there to get paid so that they can pay the people working for them. It's how the world rolls. This isn't new news. Literally, if you think just because you're a paying customer that you deserve some kind of super, duper, awesome friendly service....eh, I'd say you're in for a rude awakening. However, we should always hope that they offer friendly customer service to keep their customers satisfied and less likely to leave. But, this isn't a perfect world. When SE does something that actually offends me, I'll more than likely leave as well like everyone else does, you know?

A business operates to make money, not friends. It's just capitalism unfortunately.

I know my fair share of dealing with companies of that nature that you speak of, trust me. I spent $10,000 on a bathroom remodel through Lowe's only for the remodel to start falling apart within a year after learning that the contractors Lowe's hired were shoddy at their jobs (i.e. not doing things that they are required by law to do, etc) and I'm still in the process of getting Lowe's to own up towards the mistakes as per our contract when I first went to them for this project. They were the ones that hired those contractors so, they have partial responsibility towards why I've spent $10,000 on something that shouldn't be falling apart within the first year. Trust me, I know what you're talking about here. I'm living it.

[KisaiTenshi]

Then, why can't people just say high spenders or people with more of a disposable income? Why do we need to use derogatory names to section off a portion of the playerbase that's capable of purchasing optional content just because a choice few cannot or will not? Should the people that you're calling "whales" start calling the other side as "entitled, whining children" for wanting it free in-game, cheaper, or not at all? Should that side start calling those people "cheapskates"?

The answer is no on both accounts. We need to stop the name-calling and insulting of other players just because they can spend money on something they want and you want at the same time, but you're not willing to pay for it at it's full price or don't want it there period.

"Whales" is literately what companies (the term was coined by Zynga I believe in F2P games, the Farmville people) call their highest spenders. And not every "whale" is in it for themselves, they will spend large amounts of money on their friends. The analogy to reality is the dude with the expensive home, who has lavish parties every weekend.

The term itself, earliest use on the internet I can find is from 2004-2006 for poker "extreme high rollers" of online poker. It's ALWAYS used pejoratively. "A gift from the casino gods" is essentially what they are.