FF14 and additional fees

[Vstarstruck]

But, that's what you're doing. The paid retainers have been around for a long time and to say that it's a problem all of a sudden now would be a hyperbole being used to suit your own narrative. Why weren't more people complaining about the retainers then if it's such a huge deal? Why is it a big deal to everyone all of a sudden now because of a mobile app? This hatred seems so inconsistent lately. And you're kind of losing me with using "whales" already, because the moment that anyone has to use derogatory terms to back up their argument, they've already lost to me. You shouldn't have to insult a portion of the playerbase, just because you don't agree with a company's procedures. Since when does other players deserve to be name-called just because you disagree with a system put into place that isn't entirely their fault? Would you like being called a "whale". I think not. That's really mean.

Another question, have you ever actually played a F2P game? This isn't meant to sound condescending, but I have to ask because the F2P games I play are nothing like XIV. I play Sailor Moon Drops and Love Live! School Idol Festival on my phone sometimes, they are in fact free-to-play with optional cash shop purchasing. Sailor Moon Drops, which is basically BeJeweled/Candy Crush, allows you to purchase extra lives, extra moves, and useful items to help you theoretically win at a stage for monetary fees through bundles of Gems. Sailor Moon Drops IS a F2P and PTW mobile game, I won't deny that. I don't really do this and just play for free between DF. Love Live! School Idol Festival is a heavily based RNG card collecting/DDR rhythm game that allows you to purchase gems that can either refill your LP bar to do more songs per day or allow you better chances at scouting rarer cards. You can collect Love Gems through everyday little things without paying for optional shortcuts. I hardly pay for much unless it's ludicrously on sale. Love Live! IS a F2P and PTW mobile game as well. The Free-To-Play model is not entirely "free" as what most would think. In order for players like me to play mostly free, someone else has to foot the bill, i.e. the other players who go after these shortcuts in both games. If it weren't for these players purchasing the optional content, people like me wouldn't be playing for free #1, and #2, the game wouldn't last because there would be nothing set up fiscally to cover the apps development and maintenance costs.

So, after all of that explaining, I can honestly say that "No, I absolutely do not want XIV to just drop the sub fees, the mog shop, and go into a F2P model." It wouldn't be entirely free and someone is going to end up eating the costs of the players that want to play free, namely the people buying from the mogstation. And, honestly speaking, the funds made from the mogstation wouldn't be able to cover the development costs or patches for XIV and the game would simply just die. A F2P model for an MMO doesn't necessarily promote longevity or stability in it's life cycle and if it came down to a F2P model? I'd rather the game just die, which Yoshi-P had already stated he would if it came down towards that nonsense.

So, every time you ask for XIV to move towards F2P, you're cementing that you want the game to abruptly end and take along everyone else's enjoyment with it just because you dislike a mobile app.

Because I explained this several times. Back then it was only one or 2, and back then for me personally I assumed it was a temp bandaid fix (get funding to fix the problem) Not to keep piling up, not to keep "solving" inventory space by keep charging more and more for it.

If you want to see a thread of "back then" (or least pre SB), this thread warned about going too far with them:

16. Item/retainer management.[/U][/B]
This needs to be improved, desperately. I really hate crafting at times because of the time it takes to pull items out of retainer x, then got to click on retainer y. Also there is menu bloat on these retainers, a lot of menus are not needed on them.

"entrust or withdraw items"
Sell items in your inventory on the market"
"sell your retainer's inventory on the market"

These 3 things can be under 1 menu, and to direct what to do can be done with right clicking on items as now. We also need better steamline of transferring items from retainer to retainer directly. Even letting is craft based what is on the retainers by being at inn(change to allow craft there) apartment/ personal house/ fc house/fc room. We need to get off the 1.0 restrictions completely and have better streamlining of dealing with our items. I waste a lot of time because of this issue. I should be able to pull what I want from 2 different retainers without going though 50 million menus. It should be set up something like runescape does with customization tabs in the bank, where we could in theory make one retainer for mining items, one for refined mining items, one for alch, one for cooking, but the problem with this, cooking takes more then 175 inventory spots and crosses with alch most of the time. So due to menu bloat between retainers, crafting gets hard unlike runescape where you can just go though your custom tabs quickly. We really need an overhaul in regards to this, get rid of retainers to sell stuff on the market boards, make a normal auction house or something. We really need to ditch 1.0 concepts completely and should been done with the changes in 2.0. This means it should be looked into getting rid of retainers holding on items completely, give us a real bank, and just have retainers do VENTURES ONLY.

"This means it should be looked into getting rid of retainers holding on items completely, give us a real bank, and just have retainers do VENTURES ONLY."

Though I do admit it did not clarify about ventures being "p2W" concept, but it def goes into that retainers are def costing too much money now:

7. 3 or 4 retainers should be free, not 2
We been paying too much for too long for space shortcomings, cut us some slack please. We should not have to pay double our sub to make up for a shortcoming in the game.

8. Retainers cost too much:
No reason paying/renting for 6 retainers should cost as much as my sub. (so it is like paying double your sub just because of a short coming to game design)

So no it is not a hyperbole, for f2p, phone games is a whole different concept and I do not think that is a fair comparison. All phone games seem to have some type of gating system of time, and you can speed that up. It is a stretch of a comparison but this basic idea does not differ much from retainers. You gain more ventures at once then someone paying for base sub, for example. (kinda also disagree with the idea 'not talk about in the past so invalid talk now, but ... has been talked about in the past so now what?)

So drop the price gouging on the mog station and retainers, or go F2P and drop cub cost, since retainer fees alone is higher then sub (more so with the app fee), what is better?

Love your model however prices vary as well for sub. example;

Legacy Sub = 8
Retainers 9 - 2 (free original retainers included in Sub. ) = 7 x 2 = 14
App = 5 + 2 for retainer = 7

Close to $30 not counting internet services needed. In my case with Business line internet dedicated to gaming $40 if you add PSN monthly charge when using PS4 almost $90 a month for gaming. around $1080 a year. It may seem like a lot for a one game -.-; to me the value is worth it though. Now many who live of their parents internet won't know the real value until they are on their own. This in CA, USA by the way.

Being the game alone everything can be a choice. People don't need to get the retainers or app, if legacy 7.99 looks cheap right? ( 95.88 a year ) So perception and reality. Many people probably don't even plan on having or even have full retainers so these prices would only affect them if they add it to their accounts OPTIONAL services.

Why are you running on emotion and not logic? you seem to always bring this point up but you always use emotion based arguments more then logical. It left out the sub cost, so why are you even bringing it up? the main point was to show the extra fees are far exceeding the sub cost, so why does a sub cost exist? For what this game does repeating the treadmill? no its not worth it. If you where logical, like you try to post on about, you would see logic would dictate you to look what they give every patch and see if they are putting enough money to warrant .. up to 36 USD? a month with overcharging mog station. I do not see enough content for such fees. You think it is simply worth it simply on emotional reasons.

[ManuelBravo]

Square has been pulling this kind of crap for a long time! https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2...o-such-a-thing

There are plenty of companies that have done this way before SE, for example Facebook supporting apps such as farmville and some way before that.

[Talraen]

There are plenty of companies that have done this way before SE, for example Facebook supporting apps such as farmville and some way before that.

I was being sarcastic. Did you read the comic I linked to? The point was to make fun of the hysteria of equating optional costs with required ones.

[ManuelBravo]

I was being sarcastic. Did you read the comic I linked to? The point was to make fun of the hysteria of equating optional costs with required ones.

My apologies the way people post here and get offended at times can make it hard to tell sometimes. Specially since text does not carry tone. Guess I gave you too much credit thinking you were one of those players that actually wanted to be professional and formal instead of sarcastic and toxic.

[Talraen]

My apologies the way people post here and get offended at times can make it hard to tell sometimes. Specially since text does not carry tone. Guess I gave you too much credit thinking you were one of those players that actually wanted to be professional and formal instead of sarcastic and toxic.

I'm trying to decide which is a funnier idea, being "professional" (I'm not paid to be on these forums) or "formal" (I don't even know what that would mean in this context).

I am fine with people taking whatever tone they want, but if you're going to respond to someone's post, half of which is a link, at least have the decency to look at the link before doing so. I mean, I assume you're not paid to read these forums either, but in a work context, only reading half of a request and reacting incorrectly to it due to missing the other half would be considered highly unprofessional. (Can't knock you on formality though.)

[SieyaM]

Subscription fees have been a standard for MMOs for a long time, as well as paying for expansions. I know Everquest followed that format and if I remember correctly WoW did for a time as well. Cash shop items are a little sketchy I guess but I have never felt the need to purchase any of them and they really are all cosmetic at this time.

[ManuelBravo]

I'm trying to decide which is a funnier idea, being "professional" (I'm not paid to be on these forums) or "formal" (I don't even know what that would mean in this context).

I am fine with people taking whatever tone they want, but if you're going to respond to someone's post, half of which is a link, at least have the decency to look at the link before doing so. I mean, I assume you're not paid to read these forums either, but in a work context, only reading half of a request and reacting incorrectly to it due to missing the other half would be considered highly unprofessional. (Can't knock you on formality though.)

Guess it varies by maturity level. These are forums after all. Should of expected this type of answer.

[Talraen]

Guess it varies by maturity level. These are forums after all. Should of expected this type of answer.

Formally, that's should have expected this type of answer