FF14 and additional fees

[Vstarstruck]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but last I checked, I've only been paying my $13.99 sub fee every 3 months...so where is the +$21 coming from?

from my understanding.. (what I read, I doono the prices personally)
7 retainer = 14 USD
app 5 USD
app blocked retainer 2 USD
+21 USD + base sub , as you see, base sub wasn't included for the "13.99"
just drop the sub fee all together, the mog shop, app and retainer fees alone make it F2P model

[Vhailor]

from my understanding.. (what I read, I doono the prices personally)
7 retainer = 14 USD
app 5 USD
app blocked retainer 2 USD
+21 USD + base sub , as you see, base sub wasn't included for the "13.99"
just drop the sub fee all together, the mog shop, app and retainer fees alone make it F2P model

In fairness, I suspect a significant percentage of players stick to the base rate - and not just because they can't afford it, or because they are opposed to double-dipping in principle. Speaking personally, I could easily afford to subscribe to everything XIV has to offer (and purchase more or less anything released on the Mog Station), and were FFXIV to go F2P, I'd have no principled objection to the presence of these F2P-style offerings. I still wouldn't get them, though, because there's absolutely zero need for the additional space offered by Retainers, and the app looks terribly limited for the moment.

Just my two cents anyway. I'm slowly losing interest in these types of discussions, and steadily losing interest in FFXIV as a whole as well. The stale update cycles and increasing influence of micro-transactions are wreaking havoc on my motivation to play. It's made even worse by the mind-boggling reactions from a variety of individuals on the forums, who really do seem quite content to let SE charge them out the ass for trinkets and content re-skins. At a certain point, it just gets hard to care anymore; there are plenty of other, higher-quality titles out there that have been sitting on my play list, and I can always stay in touch with my in-game friends on Facebook.

[Sigma-Astra]

from my understanding.. (what I read, I doono the prices personally)
7 retainer = 14 USD
app 5 USD
app blocked retainer 2 USD
+21 USD + base sub , as you see, base sub wasn't included for the "13.99"
just drop the sub fee all together, the mog shop, app and retainer fees alone make it F2P model

But, that's an extreme hyperbole that only works for a case by case scenario for like...a select group of people. You can't make generalized assumptions and tack on additional and optional fees as absolutely necessary to have that not everyone in the collective playerbase would actually be paying. That's called false advertising and propaganda to fit a personal narrative. I work in the advertising business, you can't do that. That's slander and libel. That's the kind of thing the competitors do to gain more of a business's own customers by falsely making flamboyant claims to turn their own customers against them inappropriately, which is kind of what you're doing here out of your own spite for SE, no offense.

There are plenty of people in the playerbase that just pay their original sub fees and don't pay for extra retainers, they don't buy things from the Mogstation (which most are all one time fees anyways, not on a billing cycle and they don't get added into your already existing subscription costs permanently), and there are plenty of people I've heard that won't even pay for the app either.

I get it, you hate the app, you dislike what it is and could potentially do at it's core value. But, this? This is insane. You are going around and falsely advertising things in a multitude of threads in a vain attempt to either convince others to unsub with you because of your own personal reasons or somehow find validation in others to secure your own reasonings to unsub.

You have a right to be unhappy as a paying customer. However, that right can only go so far when someone is blinded by their own bias and hatred that red is the only color that they can see anymore. Like, goodness person....(I don't want to say lady or gentleman, because I don't wanna assume).

I mean, is this vendetta against SE because they offend your personal principles and values really worth upsetting everyone else about it? Wouldn't it be more productive to leave a comment in their "Website Feedback & Suggestions" thread instead of "General Discussions" or personally send something to HQ?

[Vstarstruck]

But, that's an extreme hyperbole that only works for a case by case scenario for like...a select group of people. You can't make generalized assumptions and tack on additional and optional fees as absolutely necessary to have that not everyone in the collective playerbase would actually be paying. That's called false advertising and propaganda to fit a personal narrative. I work in the advertising business, you can't do that. That's slander and libel. That's the kind of thing the competitors do to gain more of a business's own customers by falsely making flamboyant claims to turn their own customers against them inappropriately, which is kind of what you're doing here out of your own spite for SE, no offense.

There are plenty of people in the playerbase that just pay their original sub fees and don't pay for extra retainers, they don't buy things from the Mogstation (which most are all one time fees anyways, not on a billing cycle and they don't get added into your already existing subscription costs permanently), and there are plenty of people I've heard that won't even pay for the app either.

I get it, you hate the app, you dislike what it is and could potentially do at it's core value. But, this? This is insane. You are going around and falsely advertising things in a multitude of threads in a vain attempt to either convince others to unsub with you because of your own personal reasons or somehow find validation in others to secure your own reasonings to unsub.

You have a right to be unhappy as a paying customer. However, that right can only go so far when someone is blinded by their own bias and hatred that red is the only color that they can see anymore. Like, goodness person....(I don't want to say lady or gentleman, because I don't wanna assume).

No, the idea behind f2p is to allow people to chose how much value the game has to offer (piggybacking off Vhailor's reply to me) has stale and generally not having real effort put in the game. So when you have "whales" that think it is worth more, they can shell out 21 dollars + mog shop transactions, and for those that play for free... wel they get the base..

There is no "xtreme hyperbole" few people pay a lot, while many don't, everything to make this game F2P now is there, FFXIV is literally f2P model locked behind a sub fee, if they really charge that app like they said in the slides. Has nothing to do with hating it, I really can't see anyone trying to claim this isn't a hidden f2p system.

In fairness, I suspect a significant percentage of players stick to the base rate - and not just because they can't afford it, or because they are opposed to double-dipping in principle. Speaking personally, I could easily afford to subscribe to everything XIV has to offer (and purchase more or less anything released on the Mog Station), and were FFXIV to go F2P, I'd have no principled objection to the presence of these F2P-style offerings. I still wouldn't get them, though, because there's absolutely zero need for the additional space offered by Retainers, and the app looks terribly limited for the moment.

Just my two cents anyway. I'm slowly losing interest in these types of discussions, and steadily losing interest in FFXIV as a whole as well. The stale update cycles and increasing influence of micro-transactions are wreaking havoc on my motivation to play. It's made even worse by the mind-boggling reactions from a variety of individuals on the forums, who really do seem quite content to let SE charge them out the ass for trinkets and content re-skins. At a certain point, it just gets hard to care anymore; there are plenty of other, higher-quality titles out there that have been sitting on my play list, and I can always stay in touch with my in-game friends on Facebook.

well gl with whatever you do, I do admit I do not know the exact day but.. I do not have much time left, hours to maybe a day left, not sure. As for refusing to buy other things like extra retainers and mog station out of principle, yeah I know a few like that, few more that used to buy max retainers but pulled them due to that concept you spoke on.

Basically my point was (more so to Sigma-Astra) people not willing to buy retainers because of the double dipping would under f2p and I am sure those would spend more else where like mog station and so on, to cover the pure f2p players. SO no I do not see any "blinded bias" here. I truly think FFXIV is a F2P system locked behind sub fee, esp after app release where there is 4 different levels of sub costs attached to each other, base sub, then retainer fee, app, and you need to buy 7 retainers to make use of the gated 8th behind the app and all this is different sub fees)

[Sigma-Astra]

No, the idea behind f2p is to allow people to chose how much value the game has to offer (piggybacking off Vhailor's reply to me) has stale and generally not having real effort put in the game. So when you have "whales" that think it is worth more, they can shell out 21 dollars + mog shop transactions, and for those that play for free... wel they get the base..

There is no "xtreme hyperbole" few people pay a lot, while many don't, everything to make this game F2P now is there, FFXIV is literally f2P model locked behind a sub fee, if they really charge that app like they said in the slides. Has nothing to do with hating it, I really can't see anyone trying to claim this isn't a hidden f2p system.

But, that's what you're doing. The paid retainers have been around for a long time and to say that it's a problem all of a sudden now would be a hyperbole being used to suit your own narrative. Why weren't more people complaining about the retainers then if it's such a huge deal? Why is it a big deal to everyone all of a sudden now because of a mobile app? This hatred seems so inconsistent lately. And you're kind of losing me with using "whales" already, because the moment that anyone has to use derogatory terms to back up their argument, they've already lost to me. You shouldn't have to insult a portion of the playerbase, just because you don't agree with a company's procedures. Since when does other players deserve to be name-called just because you disagree with a system put into place that isn't entirely their fault? Would you like being called a "whale". I think not. That's really mean.

Another question, have you ever actually played a F2P game? This isn't meant to sound condescending, but I have to ask because the F2P games I play are nothing like XIV. I play Sailor Moon Drops and Love Live! School Idol Festival on my phone sometimes, they are in fact free-to-play with optional cash shop purchasing. Sailor Moon Drops, which is basically BeJeweled/Candy Crush, allows you to purchase extra lives, extra moves, and useful items to help you theoretically win at a stage for monetary fees through bundles of Gems. Sailor Moon Drops IS a F2P and PTW mobile game, I won't deny that. I don't really do this and just play for free between DF. Love Live! School Idol Festival is a heavily based RNG card collecting/DDR rhythm game that allows you to purchase gems that can either refill your LP bar to do more songs per day or allow you better chances at scouting rarer cards. You can collect Love Gems through everyday little things without paying for optional shortcuts. I hardly pay for much unless it's ludicrously on sale. Love Live! IS a F2P and PTW mobile game as well. The Free-To-Play model is not entirely "free" as what most would think. In order for players like me to play mostly free, someone else has to foot the bill, i.e. the other players who go after these shortcuts in both games. If it weren't for these players purchasing the optional content, people like me wouldn't be playing for free #1, and #2, the game wouldn't last because there would be nothing set up fiscally to cover the apps development and maintenance costs.

So, after all of that explaining, I can honestly say that "No, I absolutely do not want XIV to just drop the sub fees, the mog shop, and go into a F2P model." It wouldn't be entirely free and someone is going to end up eating the costs of the players that want to play free, namely the people buying from the mogstation. And, honestly speaking, the funds made from the mogstation wouldn't be able to cover the development costs or patches for XIV and the game would simply just die. A F2P model for an MMO doesn't necessarily promote longevity or stability in it's life cycle and if it came down to a F2P model? I'd rather the game just die, which Yoshi-P had already stated he would if it came down towards that nonsense.

So, every time you ask for XIV to move towards F2P, you're cementing that you want the game to abruptly end and take along everyone else's enjoyment with it just because you dislike a mobile app.

[Rinuko]

from my understanding.. (what I read, I doono the prices personally)
7 retainer = 14 USD
app 5 USD
app blocked retainer 2 USD
+21 USD + base sub , as you see, base sub wasn't included for the "13.99"
just drop the sub fee all together, the mog shop, app and retainer fees alone make it F2P model

So you're assuming everyone will max their retainer numbers and pay for the premium app.

Something that is super niche and only a very small minority even applies. The majority of the active subs don't have more than 2 retainers i'm sure.

[ManuelBravo]

from my understanding.. (what I read, I doono the prices personally)
7 retainer = 14 USDapp 5 USD
app blocked retainer 2 USD
+21 USD + base sub , as you see, base sub wasn't included for the "13.99"
just drop the sub fee all together, the mog shop, app and retainer fees alone make it F2P model

Love your model however prices vary as well for sub. example;

Legacy Sub = 8
Retainers 9 - 2 (free original retainers included in Sub. ) = 7 x 2 = 14
App = 5 + 2 for retainer = 7

Close to $30 not counting internet services needed. In my case with Business line internet dedicated to gaming $40 if you add PSN monthly charge when using PS4 almost $90 a month for gaming. around $1080 a year. It may seem like a lot for a one game -.-; to me the value is worth it though. Now many who live of their parents internet won't know the real value until they are on their own. This in CA, USA by the way.

Being the game alone everything can be a choice. People don't need to get the retainers or app, if legacy 7.99 looks cheap right? ( 95.88 a year ) So perception and reality. Many people probably don't even plan on having or even have full retainers so these prices would only affect them if they add it to their accounts OPTIONAL services.

[Talraen]

Square has been pulling this kind of crap for a long time! https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2...o-such-a-thing

[Avatre]

Love your model however prices vary as well for sub. example;

Legacy Sub = 8
Retainers 9 x 2 = 14(7 retainers from Mog Station and the 2 free from in-game)
App = 5 + 2 for retainer = 7

Should add in that the bolded one isn't calculating on the 2 free retainers everyone gets(otherwise it looks like your math is off - took me a second to realize that you removed the two free ones from your calculation)

[ManuelBravo]

Should add in that the bolded one isn't calculating on the 2 free retainers everyone gets(otherwise it looks like your math is off - took me a second to realize that you removed the two free ones from your calculation)

Ah thank you sorry lack of sleep and at work I will amend that post.