Vote Dismiss Abuse

[Risvertasashi]

And my reply was about the actual vote dismiss window, it warns you that kicking for any reason not listed is against the ToS

I'm afraid this is just plain wrong. Happy reading, from the lead GM:

To me this sounds like everything someone has to say is "(s)he had a different playstyle" when kicking for whatever reason.

People who join a duty as partly groups can kick whoever they want without a real danger of facing any kind of punishment.

You want that Syrcus Tower item, but the random player with the same class might need on it in case it drops? -> "Sorry, we dont like how you play" and kicked before the bossfight starts.


And just to clear things up, the reason I was kicked for had nothing to do with "different playstyles", the GM just put it in that category...

Greetings!

To begin, I have removed several posts commenting negatively about the company or the service itself, as well as a side discussion about the use of spell checking. Those suggestions have been heard, but take away from the concerns in this thread, which is a criticism of policy and confusion resulting from a message sent by a GM.

I have escalated several of the concerns with the messaging to the appropriate group for review and ways to improve their messaging to prevent confusion like this.

However, there is one topic in this thread that seems to be an underlying point of contention: reasons for dismissal that are not strictly "AFK", "Offline", "Harassment", or "Cheating". I would like to address this.

The response from the GM touched on this, although it was missed due to the focus on the first part of that sentence. The reasons for dismissal are not all encompassing, which means that there may be valid reasons for dismissal outside of those four examples. Good examples of this that have been provided in this thread are the refusal to fulfill one's job function. Because of this, it is possible that the reasons provided for dismissal may be found to be accurate if they are used against you. As well, the feelings one may have about the reasons may differ from the feelings of those who voted to dismiss. For example, cultural differences in language may have one person using language they find fairly benign while another person takes great offense to it.

Because of these subjective discrepancies, the final decision on if a violation of the use of the vote dismiss feature is left to a GM after an investigation. In general, abuse of the vote dismiss feature is considered to be a grief tactics violation, which falls under section 3.2 in the Final Fantasy XIV User Agreement. However, it is only after a GM investigation that it can be determined to be a violation of the rules. If you feel that the vote dismiss feature has been abused, please do report it to the GMs through the Help Desk in game, and we will investigate.

LGM Enkrateia

This does leave us with 2 possible options.

Option 1: We only consider reasons for dismissal that are specifically stated to be an abuse of the vote dismiss feature. On the plus side, this does provide a clear and definitive set of guidelines for the use of the feature. On the downside, it is limited by the creativity of customers to find ways of disrupting a run outside of what is listed. Otherwise, the list of possible violations will be too extensive to be used efficiently or will be too vague to provide a definitive set of guidelines.

Option 2: Commonly reported reasons for dismissal are listed, although the tool can be used to dismiss anyone for causing a disruption to the duty. On the plus side, the feature can be used to remove disruptions and increase the chances that the duty can be completed. On the downside, it means that there is not one definitive list for reference on when the use of the feature is justified.

Neither option actively prevents abuse of the feature. Abuse of the feature is prevented due to account actions taken by GMs after an investigation to encourage customers who do misuse the feature to discontinue that behaviour. Currently, option 2 is what is currently in place, since a GM needs to investigate either way, and allows the GM to consider new types of disruptive behaviour that arise instead of waiting for a change to the tool while keeping the tool interface easy to navigate and use.

I think what I may not be clarifying in my replies is that this allows for a broader scope to the use of the tool than just one stated example (not fulfilling job duties). It's never just "one more reason"; the possible reasons for proper use of the tool are limited only bt the creativity of those looking to disrupt duties. Once we list something there, some new way of disrupting runs is bound to arise, and this allows customers to try to make sure runs go smoothly while still allowing for GMs to consider if the feature itself was used in a proper manner.

LGM Enkrateia

[Rowde]

Additional Tip:

Vote Dismiss cannot be initiated while in combat OR while there are items that need to be lotted on.

If you are getting a sketch feeling from your PARTY, it's only the other ppl in your party that can vote kick you not the other alliances, then just don't lot on anything until combat with the next boss has been initiated, then open the next chest immediately after the boss has been defeated. Rinse and repeat through dungeon.

[Damun]

If you are getting a sketch feeling from your PARTY, it's only the other ppl in your party that can vote kick you not the other alliances, then just don't lot on anything until combat with the next boss has been initiated, then open the next chest immediately after the boss has been defeated. Rinse and repeat through dungeon.

Yeah but it was just out of the blue, there was no way for me to know that they wanted me gone, it was just *pop* gone.

It's only 7 people, so not that long of a list, and I'm pretty sure they can see what players hit yes on the vote dismiss function. Just report the group (3 people dungeons/7 people raids) and tell them that the majority of them kicked wrongly and let the GMs go from there.

Also include what time you got in the instance, what time you were booted from the instance, and possibly anything that was said between you and them (Gives them something better to look for), or amongst themselves if anything seemed a bit off.

I did do that, but they told me they couldn't go without a name, which looking through other people's complaints, GMs /have/ worked without names before.

[Lilseph]

Yeah but it was just out of the blue, there was no way for me to know that they wanted me gone, it was just *pop* gone.



I did do that, but they told me they couldn't go without a name, which looking through other people's complaints, GMs /have/ worked without names before.

It must be that GM in particular. Try to submit another report to see if you get a different person for your case.

[Okamimaru]

I've only been kicked once from a party and it was recent and it was purely due to parsing (or lack of being able to parse me to be precise)... I locked my character down as soon as I found out you could... I was like ok I'm the only one not dying but you do you... I joined another party right after and we farmed no problem...

[KaldeaSahaline]

Can someone explain to me how I'm supposed to report a player for vote dismissing when I was kicked out of the blue, I was playing properly, no deaths, no arguing, no afking. This was during an alliance raid mind you, so I couldn't really name anyone because it could be anyone out of 24 people.

I recently had a chat with a GM and they said they couldn't investigate since I couldn't name a player?
Why can't we have the name of the person who initiated the vote to dismiss if GM's can't follow up on a report.

Unfortunately, you were kicked fairly. It falls under "differing playstyles" and is not abuse. That's assuming you're telling the truth and weren't AFK, mindlessly pressing one button, harassing other people, or spamming macros, etc.

I've only been kicked once from a party and it was recent and it was purely due to parsing (or lack of being able to parse me to be precise)... I locked my character down as soon as I found out you could... I was like ok I'm the only one not dying but you do you... I joined another party right after and we farmed no problem...

I'm having trouble understanding this story:

Were you kicked because of hidden FFlogs or because you were parsed and did poorly (despite not dying) in the farm party?

[Eloah]

I haven't been kicked in a while, but I forget is the message that spawns afterwards specific to a kick verse an abandon, or are they the same. Maybe someone trolled and vote abandon instead. Still annoying though.

But I will admit, thete maybe should be some form of compansation if the claim is proven false. If I spend 40 minutes or more on a raid, just to be booted for no good reason, it's a waste of my time for something I was willing to work for. Now I'm not saying offer us something grand in return. Something small, like a materia of your choice, 10,000 gil an MGP ticket, somethink equivalent to a card saying :we're sorry"

[CrystalRainbow]

Yet voked kick for different play styles is ok.
But if they talk trash in party/ls/fc gm can take action. But likely will not beside put a flag on character info in back end of system unless it is a real problem and this person has been reported enough to cost them money.
If they are talking trash in 3rd party like discord and as far as ffxiv goes kicked out of the blue it ok by gm


Also if this is happening to you lots as in enough to post on the forums maybe you are doing something to Warren getting kicked. If it happened once or twice you are just whining because something happened you didn't like. If later are you a entitled millennial?

[Hamada]

it is not 24 people, it is the other 7 in your party. The outside parties have no say so, and the 7 you partied with should be in the contacts menu to report them. Also check if several people are on the same server as people do make premades and might kick out someone just because they do not like them

[Okamimaru]

I gotta say one time kick without harassment isn't abuse... if a mom spanks her kid once it's not abuse... if she beats her kid black and blue everyday that's abuse...