Future Primals and potential implementation into lore.

[Eloah]

susano-o (not even the same name)

Susano is Susano-o. The probable reason it was changed is because the double O in English might of caused some issues. I don't know why, but yeah it was changed.

[Seraphor]

Of which they are that entity in name only. The ravana and susano-o (not even the same name) from their respective games are completely different, as much as Shiva is completely different from the Hindu god, and bahamut isn't a planet sized turtle

Not really.
Ravana was a four-armed statue that wielded swords...
Susano-o has been a water-elemental, sword wielding summon...


Pretty much the same things.
At least as much as Bismarck was always a water elemental summon.
Garuda was a lightning elemental enemy with a birds head.
Ifrit was always more mammalian than reptilian.

They're the same things as far as the FF series is concerned.

[ObsidianFire]

Summons vary a bit between games as it is. Titain and Ifrit especially are very mutable. They're everything from completely animalistic to giant humans with teeth/horns. Heck, FFXIII had all the summons be machines/transformers. And they aren't in FFXII at all. And then there's all the summons that aren't repeating summons and only show up for one game...

[Nestama]

Summons vary a bit between games as it is. Titain and Ifrit especially are very mutable. They're everything from completely animalistic to giant humans with teeth/horns. Heck, FFXIII had all the summons be machines/transformers. And they aren't in FFXII at all. And then there's all the summons that aren't repeating summons and only show up for one game...

They are if you play FFXII: Revenant Wings.

[Eloah]

I posted this in the other Lore thread about Primals but I will repost it here since it is just as relevant.

This was semi talked about yesterday in my FC, and most agreed they would like to see more female Primals, but there aren't many to begin with. Excluding the Ivalice Espers, since they might be tied to the raid, there are a total of 13 female summons in the series, not counting spin-offs: Shiva, Garuda, Lakshmi, Valefor, Asura, Syldra, Seraph, Siren, Eden, Madeen, Anima, The Magus Sisters, & Brynhildr. And if you wanted to add other "summons" from the main series there is Angelo from VIII and Ultima and Shemhazai from XII.

Of those original 13 several are already in the game. Garuda, Shiva, and Lakshmi are all regular primals, Siren is a boss/race, Seraph is in the game as Lily(Eos/Selene), Syldra is a mount, and Anima might not appear because of the Anima Weapons. That leaves Valefor, Asura, Eden, Madeen, The Magus Sister, and Brynhildr left; 6 that's about half. That may seem like a lot but from the pool the Devs have to choose from, it's pretty small.

Now based on the teaser leading up to patch 4.3 people are speculating Asura will be summoned by Yotsuyu. But what of the other 5? If the Moombas from VIII become a beast tribe, Madeen could be their primal since she resembles a lion. Similarly, If the PuPu get added Eden could be their primal. Of possible other races the series has made, I can't think of any that The Magus Sisters or Brynhildr would work for. But there are two that might be interesting to see; the PeruPeru and Hypello from X. The PeruPeru would be interesting since we don't have a real "human" beast tribe, not sure if they aren't just X's versions of a lala, but meh. and the Hypello would be nice, cause it's another aquatic one, we got fish and turtles, why not an amphibian.

[ObsidianFire]

Well, Phoenix, Shiva, Sophia and Shinryu are "primals" of the "human" races. Odin probably is too. There's nothing that says we couldn't have more of those types of primals which gives a lot more options for what could be summoned. It also makes it a lot harder to guess the relationship which primal has with which race since race and primal have never been exactly the same anyway.

[Eloah]

Well, Phoenix, Shiva, Sophia and Shinryu are "primals" of the "human" races. Odin probably is too. There's nothing that says we couldn't have more of those types of primals which gives a lot more options for what could be summoned. It also makes it a lot harder to guess the relationship which primal has with which race since race and primal have never been exactly the same anyway.

I think this in reference to my saying "a real 'human beast tribe". I didn't mean human in the sense of us as the player, but in the sense that a humanoid race is deemed a beast tribe. like if Au Ra and Miqo'te were considered beast tribes instead of "humans" that sorta deal. The closest we have right now is the Ananta, but only their top half.

[ObsidianFire]

I'm using Human as a way to say Hur, Elezen, Mi'quote, Rogadyn, Lalafel, Au Ra and Garlean. Shinryu and the other eikons I've mentioned demonstrate that there's no real need to have "Beast Tribe"-like societies be the only societies to summon eikons. I see "Beast Tribes" as nothing more then the game telling you that they're a group that will have daily quests and a faction system tied to them. For all the Ananta are a "Beast Tribe" their quests are more about the Ala Mhigan Resistance coming into it's own then anything to do with the Ananta (which some people did not like).

That pretty much opens up to door for any group of people with the drive and aether to summon anything. Which I think is good. The "beast tribes are the only ones who summon primals" premise has gotten very stale and predictable (same pattern for three expansions). I'd love to see an expansion where a set of "Beast Tribes" are still there but it's everyone else but them is doing the eikon summoning.

[LineageRazor]

That pretty much opens up to door for any group of people with the drive and aether to summon anything. Which I think is good. The "beast tribes are the only ones who summon primals" premise has gotten very stale and predictable (same pattern for three expansions). I'd love to see an expansion where a set of "Beast Tribes" are still there but it's everyone else but them is doing the eikon summoning.

To be fair, as you mentioned we already have at least three Primals (Thordan and his Ward, Shinryu, and Phoenix) who have been explicitly summoned by humans rather than Beast Tribes, and arguably others qualify as well (Odin sort of self-summons but uses humans to do it, Sophia came from a cosmopolitan society that was probably at least partly composed of humans given that all three of her Demiurges are humans, Enkidu was summoned by Gilgamesh who's... maybe human?). Beast tribes have several reasons that they are the usual culprit, but probably the three biggest: they tend to be more religious than humans, their technology levels tend to be lower which makes them feel that their gods are the only ones who can protect them, and they do not regularly execute their Tempered which means there's generally a core group in each tribe eager to summon again.

It makes sense that Beast Tribes should more often be Summoning than humans would, but I agree that shoehorning in new tribes of Beastmen just to have a source for a new Primal is getting a bit stale. Still, as long as there's player demand for more Primals to battle, in general it makes more sense to introduce new tribes (or utilize existing tribes that do not yet have a Primal, like the Amal'ja) rather than to have humans do it.

[ChaoticCrimson]

To be fair, as you mentioned we already have at least three Primals (Thordan and his Ward, Shinryu, and Phoenix) who have been explicitly summoned by humans rather than Beast Tribes

To add to that, don't forget about Shiva too! Not to mention the Ascians have been known to tempting other people into attempting a primal summoning, like when they tried to convince Wilred and his group at Little Ala Mhigo to do it until the WoL intervened. The precedence for people outside of beast tribes to perform a summoning has been around for quite some time.