How is ilvl an issue while leveling?

[Raven2014]

Item levels are something you worry about once you hit max level. Out of all the complaints I've seen about this game, this one is by far the weirdest.
What am I missing here?

What you missing is playing a healer trying to heal a severely under-geared tank, wipe, and got kicked.

Source: me playing SCH, running lvl69 castrum dungeon, tank died several times a long the way, and we wiped twice on the last boss. DPS started berating me for "not knowing how to heal". When I point out that the tank is in a full set lvl60 gear, (The SB crafted 60, not the poetic 60), the tank went like "I'm poor don't judge me" and the ignorant DPSs start wailing about "his gears is fine you just don't know how to heal!". After a couple mins I was booted out.


Granted, that was the ONLY time I was kicked from a party for that reason, but I lost count how many time I have to burst my arse healing an undergear tank. Under gear DPS is a problem too, because it can mean something mobs are still up after the tank/healer already run out of cool down and MP. Under-geared healer is bad too, although less severe. Do-able? Yes. But by no mean enjoyable.

[hynaku]

This same thing has happened to me few times to. That's why I won't heal anymore when I use duty finder. I have seen to many tanks under geared and they blame the healer when they die. Then they kick you because they get mad because they keep dying because of being under geared and not dodging aoe attacks. First time got kicked tank took 2 hits from normal mobs and died before could cast one heal spell. Then checked his gear he had a lot caster and healer gear equipped not tank gear.

[Vstarstruck]

What you missing is playing a healer trying to heal a severely under-geared tank, wipe, and got kicked.

Source: me playing SCH, running lvl69 castrum dungeon, tank died several times a long the way, and we wiped twice on the last boss. DPS started berating me for "not knowing how to heal". When I point out that the tank is in a full set lvl60 gear, (The SB crafted 60, not the poetic 60), the tank went like "I'm poor don't judge me" and the ignorant DPSs start wailing about "his gears is fine you just don't know how to heal!". After a couple mins I was booted out.


Granted, that was the ONLY time I was kicked from a party for that reason, but I lost count how many time I have to burst my arse healing an undergear tank. Under gear DPS is a problem too, because it can mean something mobs are still up after the tank/healer already run out of cool down and MP. Under-geared healer is bad too, although less severe. Do-able? Yes. But by no mean enjoyable.

Why I said this:

People are tried of dealing with drama with people (one person sometimes to defend them "Oh it is not savage it is not a big deal" "Oh do not be elitist over gear despite the person being oneshoted by unlovable damage") with those that are clearly not ready to be in dungeon (insert name)

It is amazing how often people defend this crap. That is a big reason people want change because they are hard to kick at times because people do not understand the game.

[Makeda]

Why I said this:

It is amazing how often people defend this crap. That is a big reason people want change because they are hard to kick at times because people do not understand the game.

Yes, and well...

There is going into a leveling dungeon a little shy on gear and playing it safe... using ALL your cool downs, small pulls, and so on...

And then there is going into a leveling dungeon a little shy on gear and playing it Leeroy style - chain pulling in DPS stance, never using any cool downs, lettings mobs get on your back side, and so on... because "All the epic tanks on the forums say to use DPS stance"... and you think you're all that... but... they have the gear and rotation down, and you do not...

(you being our hypothetical tank... not any poster here).

Very often we get undergeared people who play it like they are overgeared... and that leads to all these fiascos.

There is also the situation of "my last healer was able to keep me up like this what is your problem" when that tank is maybe even 'of gear' but the healer is still leveling - and the tank is refusing to notice this...

And then there is the DPS that is "I'm overheard / good, so let's rush this thing" when the tank and/or healer are not overgeared...


In short, it's not so much that people run things they aren't geared for... but that when they do so, they just adjust how they play to accommodate that.

[Vstarstruck]

Yes, and well...

There is going into a leveling dungeon a little shy on gear and playing it safe... using ALL your cool downs, small pulls, and so on...
And then there is going into a leveling dungeon a little shy on gear and playing it Leeroy style - chain pulling in DPS stance, never using any cool downs, lettings mobs get on your back side, and so on... because "All the epic tanks on the forums say to use DPS stance"... and you think you're all that... but... they have the gear and rotation down, and you do not...

(you being our hypothetical tank... not any poster here).

Very often we get undergeared people who play it like they are overgeared... and that leads to all these fiascos.

There is also the situation of "my last healer was able to keep me up like this what is your problem" when that tank is maybe even 'of gear' but the healer is still leveling - and the tank is refusing to notice this...

And then there is the DPS that is "I'm overheard / good, so let's rush this thing" when the tank and/or healer are not overgeared...


In short, it's not so much that people run things they aren't geared for... but that when they do so, they just adjust how they play to accommodate that.

Lol ya I was able get that before reading that line. (though I do understand your reasons for stating that, there are bound to be people that might get that confused, just letting you know I can understand such things)

For your point, that is def also an issue, however there is very well the issue people under gear too much as well (though what you described is most likely more common)They use ilevel high right side while having a gimp left, stepping into some instances where they can be oneshoted from unavoidable damage and so on. So yeah I do agree your point is an issue, but so is entering places undergeared so much so it is hard to pass with them in the party.

When you get a DPS in expert that cba do the level 70 quest and have under i290 left, it usually shows 2 things. One they do not know what they are doing in general, thus the low DPS output, so low you might be there 35 min+, and the other, because of such a low experience in the game in general, trying to rush like that, they are legit not ready for level 70 endgame and understand rotations.

I wonder if they made a mistake, having raid/level cap gear remaining superior for so long into each patch. On the one hand, sure, it's nice not needing to worry about gear for so long, through half the dungeons. But on the other hand, it does encourage the lazy mindset, and does produce the idea that "well, it's just a few more levels til the next cap, that's the gear that matters." Perhaps if they made it so Augmented Ironworks/Shire were more quickly outclassed, more players would recognize how they're holding themselves and party members back by not keeping gear on par.

no, Augmented does last a while and that is a good thing since you don't have to worry about gaining exp faster then you can collect gear on the way. In other words, having a mix of Augmented gear in mix of dungeon drops is fine x7 to x9 levels (59,69 with their respective Augmented gear) this is less about having i270 in a 69 place and more so having i250 or less in slots while trying to do a level 67-69 df. (or entering i90 and under for the first HW dungeon) Being i270 in castrum abania is fine as long as you know what you are doing, and often seen i270~~ outperform higher ilevels from knowing what to do, as long as x situation can do it in 20 mins or less, there is not really room for an argument to be made of "x is an issue" You may not be doing the super mega pulls that overgear can do there, but it is not going to be insanely slow, like some may bring being say i250 and not knowing rotations.

Trying to "nerf" the effectiveness of the best gear in how long it lasts in the next expansion would only make this matter worse.

[Nestama]

Being i270 in castrum abania is fine as long as you know what you are doing

I disagree, especially if it's a tank and/or healer. A tank in full shire gear means the healer has to work extra hard just to keep them alive (especially against the final boss' tank buster that gets enhanced two times) and it also means DPS will probably need to intentionally play poorly (Level 68-69 weapon > Level 60 weapon) just so they don't rip hate and force the healer to work even harder.

When it's a healer, they heal for less, which means they'll most likely spam their {Heal} II spell and then be OOM pretty quickly.

When it's a DPS, the dungeon just takes longer. So unless the boss has a DPS check (or the tank mass pulls), no issues will arise... but don't be that DPS.

Trash mobs from Bardem's Mettle and on hit pretty damn hard. So always try to be in up to date gear, otherwise you're just going to be an inconvenience in some shape or form depending on your role.

[Vstarstruck]

I disagree, especially if it's a tank and/or healer. A tank in full shire gear means the healer has to work extra hard just to keep them alive (especially against the final boss' tank buster that gets enhanced two times) and it also means DPS will probably need to intentionally play poorly (Level 68-69 weapon > Level 60 weapon) just so they don't rip hate and force the healer to work even harder.

When it's a healer, they heal for less, which means they'll most likely spam their {Heal} II spell and then be OOM pretty quickly.

When it's a DPS, the dungeon just takes longer. So unless the boss has a DPS check (or the tank mass pulls), no issues will arise... but don't be that DPS.

Trash mobs from Bardem's Mettle and on hit pretty damn hard. So always try to be in up to date gear, otherwise you're just going to be an inconvenience in some shape or form depending on your role.

You never got 2 dps with mainly 270 gear and compared them to your average pug 280 ish w/e gear have you? Knowing what to do can go a long way but it is not going to bridge gap say i250 or something.

the only real diff is not doing the huge combine pulls, and even with not doing those, can still sub 20 mins there. You disagree because most pug dps are overall bad with the situation not something you seen. Theory crafting only goes so far.

[Nestama]

You never got 2 dps with mainly 270 gear and compared them to your average pug 280 ish w/e gear have you? Knowing what to do can go a long way but it is not going to bridge gap say i250 or something.

the only real diff is not doing the huge combine pulls, and even with not doing those, can still sub 20 mins there. You disagree because most pug dps are overall bad with the situation not something you seen. Theory crafting only goes so far.

No, but I've had a level 70 tank wearing Augmented Shire gear (weapon, armour and accessories). We made some progress with the trash mobs (one at a time, constantly ripping hate because Diversion was always on cool down), but eventually the tank just couldn't survive because they don't have the defence (and had around 38k HP). Once the tank was KO'd, everyone else eventually fell. Against trash mobs.

Tank 'DC'd,' we kicked them and got a WAR a few seconds later and cleared the dungeon with no issues. If a tank and a healer are not allowed to get a free pass for wearing shoddy gear, neither do the DPS.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

and it also means DPS will probably need to intentionally play poorly (Level 68-69 weapon > Level 60 weapon) just so they don't rip hate and force the healer to work even harder.

A 270 ilvl weapon can hold aggro against any dps no matter how good they are through all of SB's leveling dungeons. It's basically impossible to lose hate with how insane threat modifiers are.

Not that it's my proudest moment, but I've done Abania in full i270 as a PLD (WAR and DRK are ez-mode aggro wise) with friends who know their SB rotations in and out. So long as the tank doesn't try to min-max his dps at that low of an ilvl, dps hate will never be an issue.

Not that I advocate going into Abania at ilvl 270, It just irks me when people say aggro is an issue when threat modifiers are so insane it's near-impossible to lose aggro if you're actually trying to hold it. Not holding hate with a 270 weapon is a skill issue on the tank's part, not an ilvl issue. Of course a higher ilvl weapon will make it easier, but it can still be easily done with i270, the tank just has to not be asleep when it comes to aggro management.

[Nestama]

snip.

Then the DRK I had was bad, as they could not hold hate.