[dev1033] Ideas for a Two-Tier Class System: Jobs on Top of Weapon Specializations

[Illy]

I personally(and this is just my opinion) Don't think the new class system or job system or whatever you want to call it should be built on the back of the class=weapon system. It just would not work in the long run. The idea of making new weapons subsets of currently existing ones is interesting but at the end of the day would prevent newer jobs from being added(take for example Bard. It would need a instrument and making it the class=weapon way would make it need all the bard songs to have enough abilities to be called a bard and then makes the title part impossible as those songs are already used....if that makes any sense).

I also don't like the weapon sub set idea because certain classes(GLD for example) would have far more subsets then others. For example. GLD would be sword and under that could fall Greatsword, Katana, Great Katana and Dagger(and I could be forgetting stuff) While something like say MRD would have just Axe(as the current kind is a great axe).

I personally think the best way to go about it is to abandon the current system and give the players a equivalent level in the new system or to have the current system just be the gate way into the new system and the new system will not rely on any of the older systems rules once the player gets access to it(which would be a bit confusing so this would be the worst case scenario thing).

I'm not very good at explaining things so I would not be surprised if this comes off as making no sense. But keeping what we have now(which is somewhat in depth to begin with) and adding an even more in depth system on top of that(one that players would HAVE to understand) would probably alienate players. It also would make it difficult to add certain jobs into the game and make adding new ones that doesn't fall within it's rules near impossible(this is why FFXI was so great. BLU had all new rules when it came out compared to other mages and the game allowed that. The only 2 basic rules were job and sub job how those jobs worked could be completely different in every way if they wanted to). The game needs to have a new system that is extremely flexible and not overly cumbersome. Because of that I think it needs to be rebuilt from the ground up and not built upon.(Sorry if that made no sense but I can't really get my thoughts into words in this case very well)

[Cairdeas]

Here ya go Illy. A Way to implement Bard.

First The Weapon Class needs a name. Lets just use "Entertainer." Entertainer uses Entertainment weapons, Tools that are used to entertain people but function to be used in combat. These are Harps, Flutes, Whistles, Cards, Dice, and Animators.

Harps and Flutes are Main Hand, Cards, Dice, Whistles and Animators are Offhand.

Every other Odd Number grants a Song that can be Sung or used with a Harp or Flute. Every other Even number grants a Magic trick that are boosted by using cards and dice. All the numbers between for the standard skill granting levels would give Pet Abilities that are boosted if a Whistle or Animator are equipped. .

Now once the Class is done you can let players unlock jobs to specialize in entertainment. Bard, Singer, Gambler, Corsair, Puppet Master, Beastmaster.

Done. Thats how the Job System synergizes with the Weapon Class Armoury system.

[Carpe]

I also don't like the weapon sub set idea because certain classes(GLD for example) would have far more subsets then others. For example. GLD would be sword and under that could fall Greatsword, Katana, Great Katana and Dagger(and I could be forgetting stuff) While something like say MRD would have just Axe(as the current kind is a great axe).

Well, I wouldn't have Katanas and Great Katanas be subsets of SWORD. Katanas and Great Katanas might be swords, but I think they would make more sense as coming from some oriental weapon specialist class that could be a foundation for ninja, samurai, etc. I just threw the idea for subsets partly because 1) they already exist (daggers are a subset of sword; staff and wand are both in conjury, etc.) 2) some weapons just wouldn't have enough unique skills/combat style to warrant a new weapon class (ex. scythe).

[Kailok]

I'm pretty surprised there hasn't been any sort of Dev Tracker post on this topic. Seems to be really popular lol

[Duelle]

but at the end of the day would prevent newer jobs from being added(take for example Bard. It would need a instrument and making it the class=weapon way would make it need all the bard songs to have enough abilities to be called a bard and then makes the title part impossible as those songs are already used....if that makes any sense).

Perhaps my hatred for bard classes that are not combat-related impairs my perception (unlike, say, Lineage II's Blade Dancer and Sword Singer, FFXI's Corsair class), but bard not being in this game would be a bad thing because...?

BLU had all new rules when it came out compared to other mages and the game allowed that.

A mistake in implementation. The update should have hit all mage classes instead of just benefitting Blue Mage.

There is potential in building on the system we currently have. The developers will make the final call on this topic, but looking at things from the perspective of weapon and job interacting with one another is interesting and creates something more than a system where everyone in the end is the same, down to their weapons.

[Augury]

In my opinion-
Bard should be defined by a Bardsong skill set- and nothing else. I think this is simply what is best for the game; as devoted "support" jobs have a habit of ruining a game dynamic before it exists. A bard should be able to function well with whichever available weapon they choose (sword and bow would be my choices in the bard's available weapons), and should probably function more closer to what is traditionally a "rogue" than some of us may be comfortable with. But the instrument-weapon idea shouldn't be a factor only on the grounds that an instrument is not a practical weapon or crafting tool, and the bard could function on song-skills without having to give up DoW abilities which enable it to hold it's own.

Let's be honest though, this game is a sequel- and the more a sequel becomes like it's predecessor, the more downhill things tend to go. The object here is familiarity without repetition, (EG: Take out Ninja, but give Thieves/Glad ability to tote 2-handed "Twin Sword" weapons which work on a double-strike mechanic)

[Carpe]

I'm pretty surprised there hasn't been any sort of Dev Tracker post on this topic. Seems to be really popular lol

I think they're intentionally holding off on posting in any of these job/class threads until they're ready to release information on what they're going to be doing with jobs/classes. I'm sure they're lurking in the background reading all this stuff though lol.

[northernsky]

I think they're intentionally holding off on posting in any of these job/class threads until they're ready to release information on what they're going to be doing with jobs/classes. I'm sure they're lurking in the background reading all this stuff though lol.

Well maybe it did not directly get a Devs reply but we saw in an official letter from the producer that they are implementing a job system. If anything that's a stronger feedback, and I have never seen a Devs comment on how they will implement a new idea, so I guess we will have news as the system develops.

[Cairdeas]

Well maybe it did not directly get a Devs reply but we saw in an official letter from the producer that they are implementing a job system. If anything that's a stronger feedback, and I have never seen a Devs comment on how they will implement a new idea, so I guess we will have news as the system develops.

If the job system is ready for 1.18 we'll get a full lore page for it before the patch goes live.

[Cairdeas]

As far as Bard and classes (SMN, BLU, BST, etc.) that might similarly pose questions about how they might be implemented, the devs are going to have three choices doing a system similar to this one:

1) add them as a weapon class
2) add them as a job
3) keep them out of the game

The more complex they make jobs, the more they'll be able to just introduce them through job system. If they make jobs really simple, like a title that just gives you general passive traits/bonuses, then these things would have to be introduced somehow with the

I think the best thing to do with those "Specific" style jobs like Blu and Bard is to blend them with similar tasks to make the Weapon class then have the Job for each specialization.

Bard, Gambler, Corsair, Beast Master, Puppetmaster could all stem from the same Weapon Class "Entertainer" while Each of those Jobs is its own job.

Same with how I described how they could implement Ninja, Samurai, Mystic Knight with Oriental Weapons being used by the "Vagrant" weapon class. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ing-SAM-NIN%29

For things like Blue Mage, You can mix Blue Mage, Geomancer, and some of the Beastmaster skills together into a Weapon Class then let players build the core Blue Mage, Geomancer, Beastmaster jobs out of it and pull whats missing from that weapon class for those jobs from other weapon classes. .