[dev1033] Ideas for a Two-Tier Class System: Jobs on Top of Weapon Specializations

[northernsky]

Well maybe they'll do something to adjust how the AOE works for certain jobs like letting RDM cast AOE cures while paired with Gladiator or other DOW classes. If they don't do something like this then we'll never have really interesting DOW/DOM hybrids in this game, unless the benefit of adding a melee weapon balances out with the loss of AOE ability. It's kind of like trying to make a DRK in the current system, you can add all those magic abilities associated with a DRK on to your MRD/GLA/LNC, but in the end you end up with some kind of gimped melee and are just better off using THM. This inability to make compelling DOW/DOM hybrids in this game is something that I think needs to be fixed. Hopefully the Job system can be part of the solution.

In previous FF games there have been earnable job skills such as "can equip [insert weapon or ability here]on any job". So RDM could very well have a trait like "allows AOE on spells", and why not, 4 separate, unlockable traits, "allows AO heals", "allows AOE elemental", "allows AOE buffs'', "AOE debuffs".

[Physic]

they have generally avoided giving rdm aoe, i think it more likely they reduce the penalty for using magical skills or introduce some weapons that have both magic and attack stats for rdm

[northernsky]

The Entertainer Weapon class would just use those weapons to learn the skills. Once they are learned he can use them on any weapon class and specialize in being a Bard who uses fists for instance.

I'm not too sold on this idea. IMO you need to balance every class so it is playable as a main, not just as a way to obtain skills. If you can't find a way to build a complete, deep class, better make it more specific and introduce it as a job.

[northernsky]

they have generally avoided giving rdm aoe, i think it more likely they reduce the penalty for using magical skills or introduce some weapons that have both magic and attack stats for rdm

So you're saying that you would see RDM as a weapon class rather than a job?

[Physic]

So you're saying that you would see RDM as a weapon class rather than a job?

i would see rdm as a job that has a bonus to the opposing skill types based on what weapon you have equiped. IE if your using a DOM weapon you get less reduction in DOW skills. If your a DOW you get less reduction to using DoM skills.
Add to that some weapons that have Magic and melle stats on them, i would see them as lower damage than thier counterparts, but higher ACC.
Ie you have a level 50 sword with 100 attack 100 mattack high aCC high MACC and really high parry.
far as skills, i would probably give them some sort of convert mechanics, anddd i dunno what else

this is under the assumption that jobs would be a layer on top of discipline.

This way you can be a
con/rdm magic/with a little bit of weapon skill usage of melee classes (say victimize)
gld/rdm would have decent melee abilities excellent macc and acc decent damage, and no aoe
thaum/rdm much like con/rdm but concentrate more on debuffs
archanist/rdm good area buffs while still being able to melee

basicly the rdm would be the cross DoM DoW job, allowing you to be adequate damage wise at both, but having superior acc and fairly good parry. with good hp/mp management skills.


but yea, if its a job it will have access to aoe, it just wont be as good at melee if it goes that route.

[Nuru]

i would see rdm as a job that has a bonus to the opposing skill types based on what weapon you have equiped. IE if your using a DOM weapon you get less reduction in DOW skills. If your a DOW you get less reduction to using DoM skills.
Add to that some weapons that have Magic and melle stats on them, i would see them as lower damage than thier counterparts, but higher ACC.
Ie you have a level 50 sword with 100 attack 100 mattack high aCC high MACC and really high parry.
far as skills, i would probably give them some sort of convert mechanics, anddd i dunno what else

this is under the assumption that jobs would be a layer on top of discipline.

This way you can be a
con/rdm magic/with a little bit of weapon skill usage of melee classes (say victimize)
gld/rdm would have decent melee abilities excellent macc and acc decent damage, and no aoe
thaum/rdm much like con/rdm but concentrate more on debuffs
archanist good area buffs while still being able to melee

basic the rdm would be the cross DoM DoW job, allowing you to be adequate damage wise at both, but having superior acc and fairly good parry. with good hp/mp management skills.


but yea, if its not a job it will have access to aoe, it just wont be as good at melee if it goes that route.

This right here just explains how much planning it would take, and just how many different roles each Job/Class can take on. I'd very much love to see this system implemented, as it fits in well with the rest of the game and is very Tactics-ishy. :P

[northernsky]

This right here just explains how much planning it would take, and just how many different roles each Job/Class can take on. I'd very much love to see this system implemented, as it fits in well with the rest of the game and is very Tactics-ishy. :P

I also think it would make it harder for everyone to converge to optimal builds for a certain role like in XI; it gives more freedom and more heterogeneity among the playerbase.

This gives way more different ways of playing your job the way you want, efficiently if it's well balanced, and it would be lots of fun to try the different combinations in different situations.

[Carpe]

This way you can be a
con/rdm magic/with a little bit of weapon skill usage of melee classes (say victimize)
gld/rdm would have decent melee abilities excellent macc and acc decent damage, and no aoe
thaum/rdm much like con/rdm but concentrate more on debuffs
archanist/rdm good area buffs while still being able to melee

Good examples. Definitely the way I see job/weapon interaction working out if they implement it well.

Combos I would like to try out:

DRK/GLA/SEN (blood tank) use 1H-Sword and Shield, does not mitigate as much damage as a PLD/GLA/SEN, but can use drain spells/effects, debuffs, and magic resistance. Great tank against magic based monsters, etc.

DRK/MRD (DD) use 2H-Axe/Scythe. Focuses on critical hits/burst damage, melee AOE skills, magic attacks, debuffs, DOTs.

PLD/MRD/SEN (tank) use 1H-Axe and Shield, mitigation is less than /GLA, but increased parry rate and parry-related abilities. Great enmity generation. Uses buffs to reduce damage and has fairly strong heals.

These are "classic" not too creative examples, but I'd be interested to see others' ideas of how they would pair a job with a weapon class and how they would think the interaction would work together to create a unique play style.

This shows that:
1) Job choice and Class choice are fairly equal in creating your character/playstyle as a whole rather than having your main job strongly define your experience and your subjob just supporting you like in FFXI.
2) A job system won't necessarily pigeonhole you into a particular role/experience/expectation. You chose what and how you want to do it by: a) how you combine a job with a weapon class and b) what skills you decide to set up your action/trait bar with.

[Cairdeas]

I'd like to see things like

White Mage/Marauder, Where White Mage grants you AOE for Cure spells only. Then you act a bit like a Cleric fighting off the undead with your axe while healing the pain away from combat.

[Augury]

You guys need to SLOW DOWN for a minute and think about how reckless another combinatory job-system would be, as well as how the flavor of the jobs available pours over into the flavor of Eorzea's setting. So, considering this, let's look at what we flavorfully have to riff on based on the 3 city states.

Limsa Lominsa- A city on the bay, home of a powerful Navy. For the sake of this, it makes sense to have Pirate/Picaroon-ish/Thief, Berserker, Gunner/Cannoneer, Paladins and Dragoons.

Gridania- A city-state hidden in the epicenter of a forest. So it can be expected that Geomancers, Ranger/Hunter, Beast Master, Sage/Elementalist/Magus or other such jobs could hail from here.

Ul'Dah-A city-state that thrives on trade, prize fighting, militias and priesthood. Devouts, Monks, Thieves, Fighters, Bard/Clowns are all sensible choices

Ala Mhigo- (spoiler warning): Since a large portion of the plot is about Ala Mhigo falling to the Garlean empire, this would actually make for a great origin story for the birth of Eorzea's Dark Knights who seek to turn the Garlean empire's own machinas against them to avenge the fallen.

This doesn't mean that all jobs must be inherently flavorful- but it makes more sense than not. How much of a buzz kill would be to see Paladins which look like walking shields again, or color mages, if they don't really have any other place in the environment other than the game's title?