The premium app is what finally made me unsub.

[Deceptus]

I understand that not many will care about yet another "unsub" post but I feel I need to write this.

TLDR: F2P elements have no business being in a subscription based MMO. Stop attempting to nickel and dime your playerbase.

This is coming from someone who has subbed almost constantly from 2.0, well over 1600 days on my sub, who has gotten multiple other people to play it via the Recruit a Friend Campaign.

I love this game and only want the best for it. I want it to succeed. I love telling other people how good it is.

But the premium app (as described) is the straw that broke this camel's back.

One of the things I've always championed is a subscription based model. It gives the developers a reliable base revenue stream to plan future content and I'm more than happy to pay it for a game that I enjoy. I think the value is very good.

However,

Square Enix has recently, in the last few years, shifted a lot of content that used to be available in game to the cash shop. It started (for me) with the Odin Mount. All other mounts had been available through in game content, but not this specific one. Even if it was a 1% drop chance, I would have been happy grinding away at it.

Now we have various emotes, mounts, clothes, etc on the cash shop and I'm generally OK with those. They're optional, and a one time purchase.

Now with the premium app you pay $5 a month more for a bit more saddlebag space, the option to remotely manage retainer inventory (not impressive), and the ability to expand your max retainers by one. Not get an extra retainer, just the ability to expand.

The creep is real and now this is absolutely unacceptable. You might say it's optional but the ability to have one more retainer than people who don't have the app is 20 extra slots on the MB. It will have real, in game consequences.

Look. If the game needs more money, increase the sub and add all these features into it. I'll gladly pay it because I think it's worth it. But I don't think this "premium based model" should be in a subscription based MMO. I simply refuse to support a game that does this kind of thing.

What some other have said:

Furthermore, one of the major concerns is the statement that the premium coins will be used for more things in the future...so I'm not sure what the 'wait and see' crowd are getting at. It's pretty obvious that they plan to go ahead with this regardless of the backlash.

I stopped my sub for the same reasons as OP. This isn't Pimp My Ride, where we should be excited to see subscriptions in our subscriptions. I paid a subscription to not have to deal with extra fees and microtransactions. Is this what I get for tolerating the Mog Station's existence? The chance to throw more of my money at the company for some basic features that should have been in the game from the start? I'd rather see a flat subscription fee increase . . .

But the point of contention for many who are un-subbing is grossly ignored, which doesn't come from the optional but from the perception that they are adding more stuff that can (as noticed) come off as additional charges for "better access". This only has fuel added to the bonfire when their home-front is fine because it caters to them. And then add the inventory limitation that some experience and you have a situation of:

Varying sub fee + $2 x # retainers + $5 app fee that still has no clarity on if the additional retainer comes from that fee or its just a "limit break" for one more. I am still talking about how all of this is optional but to many it still screams like: "How much are you willing to fork over for inventory space?"

[ManuelBravo]

Not another thread just add to existing ones your points of view have already been covered several times.... Besides it helps your cause to add to existing ones...and like any other thread quitting do to OPTIONAL services ...good riddance.

[MilanFrozen]

Not another thread just add to existing ones your points of view have already been covered several times.... Besides it helps your cause to add to existing ones...and like any other thread quitting do to OPTIONAL services ...good riddance.

Yeah you tell him! Quitting because of content in a 'theme park MMO' is a stupid reason! Who quits because of 'OPTIONAL' content in a 'THEME PARK' Anyway?

Why that would be like not going to disneyland because you've ridden the rides you want and they're releasing one that you don't like. /sarcasm off

Why are there so many of you incapable of understanding why there is no such thing as optional content in a game with almost all of it being optional content?

[Remyogic]

Why are there so many of you incapable of understanding why there is no such thing as optional content in a game with almost all of it being optional content?

Option [Webster's Dictionary]: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/option

1) an act of choosing

2) the power or right to choose

3) something that may be chosen

As long as SE gives you a CHOICE in whether or not to pay the extra money. It qualifies as an OPTION. Thus, it is OPTIONAL CONTENT. The only way this would NOT qualify as optional is if they made the app and it's subscription mandatory in order to subscribe to and play the game.

As I've stated in other threads, just because you don't LIKE you choices, does NOT mean you don't have a choice.

[MilanFrozen]

As I've stated in other threads, just because you don't LIKE you choices, does NOT mean you don't have a choice.

Actually it does mean you have no choice. That app is coming out no matter what. Are you denying that? I promise you OP has no bearing on whether it's getting released. He's perfectly entitled to not want it to affect the game and quit as a result, but that app is gonna be there whether he likes it or not. Does he have to use the app is an irrelevant question as it's existence and implementation is the root.

[Remyogic]

Actually it does mean you have no choice. *snip* Does he have to use the app is an irrelevant question as it's existence and implementation is the root.

Your statement is so flawed it's laughable. It's the equivalent of saying Nuclear Bombs exist, so we HAVE to use them, so everyone MUST kill themselves.

1) The existence of the app has zero effect on you game experience as evidenced by the fact that a) the game has existed for over 5 years without it and b) NOTHING currently in the game is being removed and relegated to the app only.
2) You have a CHOICE whether or not to use the app, hell you have a CHOICE whether or not to even download the app.
3) IT DOESN'T EVEN EXIST YET!

You still have choices to make, maybe none that you like, but they are still choices. That is undisputable.


I want to add that I don't necessarily agree with the concepts presented for the app and have not personally decided whether or not I will use it. But people going all END OF THE WORLD over something they have a choice on, is asinine.

[Remyogic]

Actually it does mean you have no choice.

His enjoyment of the game being hindered by the app is his choice.

Soooooo..........choice or no choice? Which is it? My whole statement is based around the premise of CHOICE. Your statements conflict severely on that matter. Maybe you should be the one gathering your thoughts?

[Vstarstruck]

If the Premium Sub offers something like +5% att in Duty Finder content, then fine complain, but it's not.
Pay2Win is the concept that without doing anything in-game you can buy your way to the best gear or gear that can't be obtained by other means.

You do not see.. how what you said is conflicting?

You can get 5% attack up for duty finder content but it does not help if you do not enter the duty finder then after that, do your rotations well? THAT IS THE SAME concept with P2W with retainers. Also it is not a "5%" increase, its a 500% increase (for 21 dollars) How people are so blind to this I got no clue.

For now I am boycotting SE completely over being too cash grabby, I will not support such greed, an lazyness when it comes to fixing core coding, no they rush out 2.0 so they can charge us more later. I do not play any EA games or any other games that pull this nonsense, this is the first time being personally exposed to it and I will not support it at all.

Not only has there been several threads made, but other different people in different threads are posting how they are unsubing over this as well.

"The coins are a way to limit the use of the app and honestly for those who think being able to change the price of an item you sell through the app at the cost of a coin is an advantage. . . it's not." do we play the same game? do you know the advantage you have having the top listing consistly? it does not matter if it is by 1 gil, people auto pilot buying the top listing, even if the total is more though taxes.

For the final point you are right, not many will fully exploit the app, but it only takes that ONE PERSON to fully exploit the app to full control the MB. With how the MB is set up in general, makes it easy for one person to control it, just no one has yet for whatever reason, with this app though it does make that a hell a lot easier to do, while making people pay absurdly high amount of money in microtransactions for someone with that goal (so the person needs to be rich in rl and ig, and im not sure if that exists or not, may never see it because of that, but that does not change the fact the ability is there, so chances are high someone will do it.)

I really don't get why people feel the need to mention these are optional services.

There's only 1 thing that's not optional in this game and that's whatever prerequisite is forced upon you in order to play the optional content you want to play.

Because people love white knighting SE

IF F2P games are so great why are people comparing it to a game that is not a F2P to begin with? Just silently quit and go play something else. We the poor souls that enjoy this game and don't mind paying for things that we choose to do will waste our funds to help enhance a need that we have and SE is meeting based on their business model.

White knight statements like this are annoying, to think people see this as logic is mind boggling. I am sure EA will love you are your spokesperson. Where is that picture about SE in "what they learned"? that pic goes against everything said here.

Also it is compared to a F2P game because that is the model SE is using while being gated on a base sub, completely uncalled for. There is a difference of trying to make money and blatantly ripping people off with shady tactics, in case you did not know, there is even groups and government agencies made to combat this very thing. I am not saying SE went that far though, but this is a reply to "you do know what the number one rule of a business is right? this is not a charity type of business in case people have not noticed. " It can get so bad you are the cause of government regulation (EA)

Yes XI is still charging 12.99 for 1 character.

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/envi/charge.html


Basic Service Fee (*2)
$11.95(or 1,195Crysta)

Character Fee
$1.00(or 100Crysta)

Mog Wardrobe 3 Fee (*3)
$2.00(or 200Crysta)

Mog Wardrobe 4 Fee (*3)
$2.00(or 200Crysta)




So what you are saying is Gil and market board is P2W? Lol
You have to remember these market board features through the app is very very niche and won't affect the bigger community or economics.

Not to forget the argument about extra retainers, why have people in your corner been silent on that for years?

Nice try but no, FFXI had a lot of additions for free, one was gated by a 1 time payment for a token. It would be like getting a 3rd bag of 140 slots. FFXIV made very little attempt for that kind of improvement, and what they do improve on is gated by excessive fees.

It's exactly why we should not judge it too soon. I trust SE and while a premium subscription seems unfair based on ideals that some how this game is being compared to F2P games by many players( knowing they pay a subscription and has optional services ) is beyond the realm of common sense apparently.

Take Eureka, they released patch notes as well many hated , many liked , some of us completed during he first week while others complained from day 1 that it was too hard or unfair. Even with patch notes players comprehension skills are questionable claiming that they read it and even reported being ko'd and returning was giving them an XP penalty. When I read those I was -.-;; yeah sure you read those notes. Based on their track record SE is one of the few companies I can say I'm willing to follow and even pay for optional services knowing fully aware that as a consumer is my decision and not being forced into doing so.

We are going by what they said on the slides, we can judge what they told us, and based on their track record of not taking any consideration to make adjustments before a problem comes out.

I bought extra Retainers for inventory space because I likes to horde weapon, tier gear, tome gear, and various glamour gear.
Retainer market board is secondary and often cost me much more time and effort to list items.
As you already made your mind, I wish you are good luck for your venture in other games.
Enough said, no need to beat on a dead horse since OP already made his mind, any further argument is pointless.
Just wish him farwell.

k, but what you do has nothing to do if something has a P2W concept in it or not, retainers and this app are P2W concepts.

Yeah you tell him! Quitting because of content in a 'theme park MMO' is a stupid reason! Who quits because of 'OPTIONAL' content in a 'THEME PARK' Anyway?

Why that would be like not going to disneyland because you've ridden the rides you want and they're releasing one that you don't like. /sarcasm off

Why are there so many of you incapable of understanding why there is no such thing as optional content in a game with almost all of it being optional content?

Lets make it cost 1 dollar each time you change a glam because it is "optional content" lets lock gold saucer behind 1 dollar access that only lasts for 24 hrs because it is optional content. There is a difference of adding optional content and missing features that you charge for later and only missing because you rushed the game out. This is the only way people can protest these shady practices. Your post has a more detailed reply here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...if-it-continue

[ManuelBravo]

White knight statements like this are annoying, to think people see this as logic is mind boggling. I am sure EA will love you are your spokesperson. Where is that pictureabout SE in "what they learned"? that pic goes against everything said here.

Also it is compared to a F2P game because that is the model SE is using while being gated on a base sub, completely uncalled for. There is a difference of trying to make money and blatantly ripping people off with shady tactics, in case you did not know, there is even groups and government agencies made to combat this very thing. I am not saying SE went that far though, but this is a reply to "you do know what the number one rule of a business is right? this is not a charity type of business in case people have not noticed. " It can get so bad you are the cause of government regulation (EA)

First of I don't like EA games and even sent them a video of destroying their disc that I purchase as a sign that I don't want to be affiliated with their company; that is how you boycott and make your point known. Which brings up my next questions...as I recall and understand that you are leaving for good unless SE gets their act together....why are you still here? I thought you said your leaving for good in earlier post? I know your excuse is your waiting for your next billing period right? If people are really not supporting a company then why even bother making more comments? Silence is Golden, your points have been made and repeated more times that I can remember in multiple threads.

I defend logical points, have an open mind for emotional driven comments, however if they can't make a logical point that seems proper I only question it. I've had some nice debates and can understand certain things and placing labels of others just do to their perspective in supporting a company is just funny to see. A white Knight, I'm more of a devil's advocate.

Here is how SE see's it in their terms of use.

11.8 Changes to this User Agreement. Square Enix reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to change, modify, add to, supplement or delete any of the terms and conditions of this User Agreement or the way that the Game operates at any time. Square Enix will notify you of such changes in one of the following ways at its sole discretion: through a patch, email, postal mail, website posting, pop-up screen or in-game notice. If you do not agree to any such change or modification, you may terminate this User Agreement by uninstalling the Licensed Software and destroying your copy(ies). Your continued use of the Game following any revision to this User Agreement will demonstrate your full acceptance of any and all such changes.

http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...1&tag=users_en

[KaldeaSahaline]

Mhm. Just one example, but there are many more like it floating around the multitude of threads that exist about the topic already. So much as even thinking that they're putting more resources into optional purchases than the main game is absolutely ludicrous and you should feel bad for thinking it.

In no way shape or form did I say that they are putting more resources into the cash shop than the game. That'd be a staggeringly asinine statement.

I said that they were putting MORE resources into the cash shop than they have PREVIOUSLY, things that COULD and SHOULD have been in the game.

Two VERY different statements, but I will concede I could have probably worded it more clearly.