Are the devs aware of the current Monk openers utilizing RoW?

[Bl4ckBunny]

Let me get this straight; people were complaining for a long time about Tornado Kick being useless.... and now people are complaining because the "recent" changes made it so people figured out a way of making Tornado Kick useful?

I mean, I guess people are simply never happy and always want a reason to complain. *shrug*

Simple, TK was bad in the first place and now making it somewhat 'useful' is a problem because of how bad it was x). In HW monk wasn't really a class that you pick for raid and such and right now you only pick it for heavy physical comp otherwise Ninja and Dragoon are still prioritized coz they offer more and do more damage in a party setting.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Let me get this straight; people were complaining for a long time about Tornado Kick being useless.... and now people are complaining because the "recent" changes made it so people figured out a way of making Tornado Kick useful?

I mean, I guess people are simply never happy and always want a reason to complain. *shrug*

Like I said in the OP, wouldn't have had a problem with this if it was intended and worked with the way Monk plays.
Instead it's clunky and difficult to use because of our faster GCD speeds and the fact that if we spend even a GCD more than we need to outside of Fire stance, it's either a DPS loss or dps neutral. This is just not fun to use.

And I have to agree with Kabooa. A lot reason it feels so bad is due to the fist stances. If they were all just dissolved into their Riddles it would make using TK so much better.

[Shurrikhan]

I believe the changes were exactly meant to lead to this. SE has no issue with clunky and seems to encourage it actually. You can look at flamethrower and bahamut for example which are the most known. They like to use clunkyness as a tool to provide some execution difficulty.

Disproportionately penalizing ping and server ticks (while allowing team-protective utility skills to be wasted for bonus damage, in the case of Bahamut) =/= execution difficulty.

There's no difficulty added from my maybe getting the first or last tick of Flamethrower, maybe not, before moving on in optimal rotation. It depends entirely on whether the server is quicker to note my breaking Flamethrower than my engaging it.
There's no difficulty added TCJ taking more than the normal Ninjutsu time to cast each successive Ninjutsu.
There's no difficulty added in applying GL stack on Riddle of Wind rather than Wind Tackle, or retaining Fists of ---'s slightly above-average animation lock.

I'm personally glad Tornado Kick is finally an option during core uptime, even if only at the tail end of RoF. I'd just like to see Riddle of Wind done away with so it's less clunky to recover from that option.

Ideally, I'd like to see oGCD damage scale variably with SkS and the base damage of TK reduced just a slight bit as well, so that varying levels of Skill Speed would still receive equal worth from and therefore access to this rotational option, but that's like... three expansions future worth of common sense.

[Remedi]

I'd hardly call Flare as being in the ST rotation.

It's a very specific case for using Flare, and it generally has more to do with Boss Invulnerability phases than anything else.

Mh are we talking about the same rotation? Because from what I know you can essentially use flare every other rotation beside the opener

[zuzu-bq]

I'd hardly call Flare as being in the ST rotation.

It's a very specific case for using Flare, and it generally has more to do with Boss Invulnerability phases than anything else.

They're talking about the Triplecast 6F4+Flare Transpose trick.

I'd say as unintended as using flare rotation for BLM in ST right now, which has some degree of clunkyness, though perhaps is less clunky, anyway we'll see if it's something that SE will allow or not

Probably less clunky as that, sure, but the Flare trick for BLM is miles away from how strong doing constant TKs are for MNK.

[Remedi]

I agree but I meant that they probably didn't see the flare trick coming either

Edit @Kabooa since daily limit: shameful link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS91hwWOKI4

[Kabooa]

I require a link to this. I can't see this lining up well enough to call it a rotation.

[Fendred]

I honestly wasn't even aware it was an opener until you mentioned it. And that would be very clunky, considering the limitations of button layouts. All of those abilities are ones that tend to go into odd end places on my ability bar because of their situational nature. No way that is intentional design, and I can say that with some level of authority since I've done a fair share of software and UI development. This sounds more like an unintended consequence of active job ability bloat. The same issue propped up in old RPGs where there were hundreds of different spells that did different things. Lots of crazy nonsense combos started to pop up that were game breaking. Especially near the highest levels of the game. It even occurred in games like Dungeons and Dragons, where it became possible to transform yourself into a multiheaded spellcasting hydra and spell nova literal gods into oblivion at the highest levels.

It makes sense considering other things the devs have said. On SB release I believe they had stated they weren't too thrilled about adding more classes in whatever the next expansion would be. They realize there will need to be a rework of the older stuff pretty soon, since they can't keep adding new abilities on top of old ones forever.

[Kabooa]

I agree but I meant that they probably didn't see the flare trick coming either

Edit @Kabooa since daily limit: shameful link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS91hwWOKI4

Thank you.

I don't think I like it, but in encounters where you have at least 60 seconds until the next moment of movement pressure, I see the merit in it.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

All of those abilities are ones that tend to go into odd end places on my ability bar because of their situational nature.

This. RoW is on my 2nd hotbar along with Tornado Kick, they're just too situational to be on my first hotbar. I don't have any more room to fit these on my first hotbar either. So switching back and forth between my hotbars, between my already faster GCD, is just a mess to deal with.

You can really tell this was unintentional because it plays like a HW job, frantically moving through your hotbars, when SB was an attempt to move away from this style of play. I'm just really hoping they know this is happening and have an answer for it.