Enmity Test Results and Conclusions (Translation)

[Matsume]

Very well presented. Thanks for your effort.

[Colino]

Fantastic info and extremely useful... Thanks to you both!

[Leigh]

Great! Thanks for the translation, a must read for all tanks especially!

[Keftenk]

LIGHT THE KAEKO SIGNAL!!

[Kaeko]

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...entry?e=307111

Sorry the image is hard to read. I had to post quickly to head off to work. Glad to see some other testing going on. I see a lot of discrepancies in the table so I'll have to dig at the methodology differences when I get back.

[Kaeko]

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...entry?e=307111

Sorry the image is hard to read. I had to post quickly to head off to work. Glad to see some other testing going on. I see a lot of discrepancies in the table so I'll have to dig at the methodology differences when I get back.

Here's a more readable version of the table I posted this morning.



I sense that there is likely a difference in methodology that leads to slightly different values. I produced this table using "rock throws" to find the lowest enmity values (Protect, Sanguine Rite, then a couple of the "19"s), then used these abilities to match hate. I assume that the JP testers used pure damage. Most of the values are either within the JP table or within the realm of reason (for instance, Flash and Voke are off, but look close).

Couple of notes just eyeballing:

(1) First Attack Bonus: I agree, when I tested this pre-1.20 this was the case as well. This differs from XI, which had a significant pulling bonus. Be aware that there is actually a tiny "bonus" for aggroing the mob though (1 damage worth).

(2) Enmity Decrease over time?: Agree, there is no time-decay component of enmity. Again true pre-1.20. This was not the case in XI however.

(3)Provoke on GLA vs. MAR?: I agree it was the same when I tested this patch, though our value for voke differs. However, the rank of the player matters significantly so it's more about having equal ranks as opposed to equal jobs.

(6) Cure enmity: The blogger uses the 1.6 cure : 1 damage ratio whereas when I tested I merely inversed it. I got the modifier to be roughly 0.625 damage = 1 hp cured, which comes to the same thing.

(12) Enmity from gear: When I tested this, it really threw me off because I thought I was going crazy seeing it do almost nothing. I actually wrote it off as broken, but then a member of my LS swears it makes an tangible difference so I thought there was a high probability of testing error. It's very nice to see he reaches near the same result (that gear enmity does almost nothing); however, I would not write off the use of this completely as we both reached this conclusion with similar testing methodologies and they BOTH may be flawed.

(14) Hate Cap: obviously very important for endgame hate management but I have not looked at this in 1.20. In 1.18 I saw absolutely no evidence of a hate cap though, tested up to 30000+ damage worth.

Enmity Table: most of my values are either 4, 19, 114, 55, 363, and then some oddballs. I think they mostly fit within the ranges the JP table has so I'm confident that they are in the right ballpark. However, the precision may not be up to the point as I had them in XI.

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Finally, I want to talk about the very adept poster who mentioned that these numbers do NOT seem to hold any weight on Ifrit fights, noting that a GLA can spam an initial flurry of actions and then have hate stolen in 1 THM combo. This was quickly noticed by my LS after we completed similar testing in 1.20 and we're honestly still lost on it.

For Stan's explanation, I think it's fairly accurate in terms of #s, but I would just add that yes, the players that are hit by prism cure and rampart need to be on the hate list for the tank to get any benefit. So if you open with a prism cure and no one else has done anything yet, you waste it.

But the reason I feel that something is off when trying to apply these hate studies to an Ifrit fight is you will often-times see a pickup group Ifrit fight go 10+ minutes and the tank will have been cured 50,000+ HP by a healer. If we convert this value to 'damage" with the 0.625 ratio, we get 31,250 damage. If you then take a look at the damage parser, you'll see THMs doing maybe upwards to 12,000-13,000 damage. Poll the players and the THMs are always the ones complaining about hate, not the healers. Shroud of Saints is only a temporary enmity decrease so it shouldn't alter the results. Also, the main tank in my LS swears enmity gear works and I have to say, eyeballing (as much as I hate using it to drive research) it it does seem to do something; however, from both my own and the JPs' tests, it should be near unnoticeable.

I do think that the current look into the enmity system for XIV is probably only hitting the surface as we're missing at least 1 very large concept here (given that the "on paper" math does not translate to an actual endgame scenario). I am really excited to see others do enmity research though. Thanks to Stan for the awesome translation (and for Guildwork )

[Rydin]

I do think that the current look into the enmity system for XIV is probably only hitting the surface as we're missing at least 1 very large concept here (given that the "on paper" math does not translate to an actual endgame scenario). I am really excited to see others do enmity research though. Thanks to Stan for the awesome translation (and for Guildwork )

This is going to sound Obvious... but has anyone actually checked to see if magic damage is the same as physical damage in terms of a 1 = 1 ratio?

[Kitfox]

Huge thanks to the translator and testers! This is very useful infromation!

[syntaxlies]

Pretty amazing work. Isit yours or did yo just translate it,either way Ty. I posted on ,y LS forums.

[SynysterBlitz]

Thanks a bunch for the helpful info