Please let us buy gil since it's not pay to win.

[Berethos]

Sub tokens don't destroy the economy because no gil is being generated, it's just passing hands. The only effect it would have in the economy is that more people would participate in the market as gil would now have a good use.

That's a nice theory, but I've seen how silly the prices have gotten on servers for things as simple as low level materials that are easier to gather, or even mid-30s greens (I checked a few minutes ago since I'm currently subbed to that game as well, and the price for a level 40 green plate piece was like 400g), because of the impact the token price has had on players trying to afford it...and that's in a game where the in-game currency is typically generated as a faster rate than what you see here (more sources that generate new gold).

It may not destroy it, but it absolutely has an impact. Certainly a greater impact than being able to re-list/change a price when you're not at your computer.

That being said, that's because they use a supply/demand algorithm for their tokens, which has led to the price of tokens going from 36k or so (approx 3 million gil for us) to 190k in the US (and it's nearly double that in the EU...same game, same gold sources, prices that high...yikes). A static conversion - always 15 dollars, always costs X gil in-game, might be a working counter (I don't see gil rewards/sources increasing nearly as much in this game as they do in others, limiting the generation of new gil in the economy).

[alimdia]

That's a nice theory, but I've seen how silly the prices have gotten on servers for things as simple as low level materials that are easier to gather, or even mid-30s greens (I checked a few minutes ago since I'm currently subbed to that game as well, and the price for a level 40 green plate piece was like 400g), because of the impact the token price has had on players trying to afford it...and that's in a game where the in-game currency is typically generated as a faster rate than what you see here (more sources that generate new gold).

Excess of currency creates inflation, not this. Things are priced as high as people are willing to pay for them, and no one is gonna pay 10x for a mat they could just gather themselves. Try to force a low level mat to a high price and watch how you're undercut back to a low price.

[Berethos]

Excess of currency creates inflation, not this. Things are priced as high as people are willing to pay for them, and no one is gonna pay 10x for a mat they could just gather themselves. Try to force a low level mat to a high price and watch how you're undercut back to a low price.

Yet certain materials and items in WoW stayed at a specific price range (despite more and more gold being brought into the economy) - based on what people were willing to play - UNTIL the token was added. As prices for that climbed, prices for the other items that had been lower also began to climb.

Maybe it was all a coincidence, though I find it unlikely that items would just happen to jump in price that much (we're talking a 10x jump or more in price) at the same time as the tokens were added after being largely steady for years.

[Vstarstruck]

That's a nice theory, but I've seen how silly the prices have gotten on servers for things as simple as low level materials that are easier to gather, or even mid-30s greens (I checked a few minutes ago since I'm currently subbed to that game as well, and the price for a level 40 green plate piece was like 400g),

alimdia is correct, and also correct with the counter to this. There is some low level stuff that is simply rare so people pay a lot of gil for it, like emperor hairpin in ffxi (only that had 2 reasons for being a lot there, reason 1 it was rare plus it was still used at level 75, max level. I do not know when it got phased out exactly but ya) Low level item does not always mean cheaper.

FFXIV even does this, ever notice the effect SB had on effervesent water? It went though the roof because SB synths go though it like... water? It is crazy.

The problem with sub tokens in this game has a few problems though. 1. MB is a mess, and needing to spam undercut, 2. a lot of people have gil hoarded esp career crafters. So if sub tokens where made, hyperinflation is bound to happen because that horded gil will be circulated. I am not sure if this is an exact problem, but it runs into the next reason. 3. Housing. the shortage of housing people still try resell and hoard them under FC name, the problem may be less now, but if you suddenly have these sub tokens, I do fear insane bidding prices on reddit for second hand housing.

So I would like to see the tokens in this game, so gil is more circulated but, FFXIV's economy just has too many problems atm.

I find the term pw2 odd. I mean... what are you winning really? PvP is the only competitive game mode, and its gear is standardized.
gil in FF14 is largely worthless unless you want to buy a house.

If you really do not understand, why not read some posts explaining it? Retainers are P2W, just because you do not see it as "competitive" does not change the fact it is P2W. You are paying real money for an advantage, it is problematic people can't see this or understand. That advantage goes to career crafters and people that want to focus on making gil in the game, no matter how worthless it is to you, some people like seeing 2 + gil cap retainers.

You pay real money for more sale slots at once, 40 vs 180, 40 vs 200, 320 vs 1600, etc, the difference of paying extra and sub base is a big difference, maybe even more so then selling "PvP" potions because this ant no "5%" increase in damage, this is a 500% increase.

[Berethos]

alimdia is correct, and also correct with the counter to this.

alimdia is not correct, because alimdia is ignoring some of the additional context related to tokens in WoW.

The amount of gold that can be obtained in Legion did not increase significantly enough to account for the kind of spike in prices that many of the busier servers see. It did cause a bump, but a number of external elements (such as being able to convert the tokens to Bnet balance and thus buy other items from the company) served to increase demand for the token.

Can you guess what happened next?

Token prices went up. AH prices for many items went up (including many that, as I have noted before, had stayed steady for years despite the slower inflation caused by increased sources of gold with each expansion), despite there not being a significant change in gold sources outside the increase seen the previous year when the expansion launched (note that the spike occurred less than a year ago, while Legion launched over a year before the spike, so it wasn't a shift caused by the new expansion).

Do you really want to sit there and tell me the two aren't related? That those level 30 greens that were once 40g just happened to, in the last 6 months, jump to 400g? That it's not players trying to make enough gold to buy the tokens at the new price, leading to an economy that prices new players out of buying many items they once could? That allowing RMT has zero impact on the in-game economy?

[Ayer2015]

If you really do not understand, why not read some posts explaining it?

You clearly either didn't read what I wrote, or didn't comprehend the meaning....
i'm aware of what P2W is, and a market-board app isn't that. Buying gil would give no real advantage either in this game. Gear is so easy to obtain it is almost ridiculous.

[Rokke]

Not that confusing... I'm not arguing that buying gil is p2w... it's economy destroying... you might as well remove gil from the game... you flood a server with gil and the value of gil drops...which makes MB prices rise... which pushes more people to buy gil...
The cycle continues... you end up with people then RMT MB items because it ends up being cheaper than buying the gil to buy the item that way... I've seen it happen elsewhere... people demanding in game currency 10x and more beyond the players max currency cap for a single item... vs giving the seller 100 USD and just getting the item... SE won't even see it coming

Why bend over backwards to defend the app across multiple threads and draw the line here? Both have the potential to wreck the economy. Your arguments for the app say its ok because mb =/= winning the game. So whats your problem with selling gil? Why were you fine with the app wrecking the mb but why not this?

Quite frankly, I don’t want either implemented, but everyones flip flopping across the previous 17 pages boils down to “this one is ok because it won’t effect me significantly …b-but this one is bad dirty wrong (because it will effect me!!!)”. They're either both bad and you should hate both of them or they're both ok and you should be ok with both of them.

[Okamimaru]

The app really doesn't do much... the ability to spend more real money for another retainer? More storage space? To pay money to shuffle items around? Using the premium version is a rip off... that extra retainer only comes into play after someone has used up all the other retainers from.the mogstation... so that person already dumps a bunch of money into that... being able to manage your MB listing for real money remotely doesn't give advantage over other MB users who sit at home all day and truely can "run the board"... people who are gonna abuse the MB will do it regardless of this app... any "advantages" gained will be by people who are already miles ahead in terms of MB manipulation... the economy has already adjusted to people using 8 retainers.. one more is a drop in the ocean... prices will drop in a price slashing race if anything vs flooding a server with gil and all prices skyrocket because gil is far more available than items

[Ruf]

The app really doesn't do much... the ability to spend more real money for another retainer? More storage space? To pay money to shuffle items around? Using the premium version is a rip off... that extra retainer only comes into play after someone has used up all the other retainers from.the mogstation... so that person already dumps a bunch of money into that... being able to manage your MB listing for real money remotely doesn't give advantage over other MB users who sit at home all day and truely can "run the board"... people who are gonna abuse the MB will do it regardless of this app... any "advantages" gained will be by people who are already miles ahead in terms of MB manipulation... the economy has already adjusted to people using 8 retainers.. one more is a drop in the ocean... prices will drop in a price slashing race if anything vs flooding a server with gil and all prices skyrocket because gil is far more available than items

Actually this is all the same, mog station cosmetic purchasing, extra retainer, the moogle coins application, HW lv.60 jump/300/600k gils potion, its already there & at first sight its getting worst, make up your mind buddy.

[Rokke]

one more is a drop in the ocean... prices will drop in a price slashing race if anything vs flooding a server with gil and all prices skyrocket because gil is far more available than items

“this one is ok because it won’t effect me significantly …b-but this one is bad dirty wrong (because it will effect me!!!)”.

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