Request: More challanging / difficult content. PLEASE

[SniperRifle]

Recently I've seen positive feedback on the concept of unlocking new areas at the end of chain missions. Which was done well in FFXI.

An example of an idea I had, perhaps after clearing Dzemael or a successful 5 chest run, then players would unlock a new dungeon/zone. And that would be identified as the more difficult zone. Personally I'm not a fan of the 2 versions (hard/reg) of the exact same zone, though it did work in WoW, I'm not sure if replicating something that (with some creative imagination and hardwork) could be transformed into something new and revolutionary. Actually, WoW did this as well, I believe... Essentially (for basics), there are 2 raids. You have to kill the final boss of the 2 raids, which can be cleared w/ melded gear/r/e gear from current content. By killing those 2 final bosses you complete a quest and unlock;

1) a new vibrant zone w/ awesome music riddled w/ mobs that drops more valuable crafting mats then lower tier zones. This will give crafters a reason to clear dungeons to unlock a zone that gives them optimal form of gathering their own higher level recipes. The crafter who don't clear the 2 raids will have to purchase the items from the AH, or get a friend in LS. Making raiding a priority to making better gear.

2) access to a new raid which no one under any circumstances can enter until they've cleared the 2 raids. The raid is slightly longer, difficult, w/ slightly better rewards, and the final boss in this dungeon drops gear obvi better then anything in the previous 2 raids, as well as gives a title or some significance to his defeat. Perhaps you even unlock another raid, which is located on an unexplored grid on the map and rinse repeat, new quest to kill certain bosses in the dungeon, dungeon can have different strat or lockout, different monsters, with different music, something in the storyline emphasizes this raid is badass/gorey. Maybe all the monsters share similiar types, like every mob explodes upon death, aoe poisons, just slightly more difficult struggles to face and more adbundant as well.

When jump is implemented in 2.0 they can make raids (and the difficulty possibilities are endless if they use a seamless world) where there are jumps parties have to make to get to the next area of the dungeon, falling off the ledge into an abyss would result in the player respawning at the start or the last checkpoint (if raids get that big) of the dungeon w/ weakness. For higher tier dungeons there can be floating platforms, w/ knock back mobs (hogs), and the knock back takes like 5-6 seconds to ready and is a very noticable animation... This is where stun abilities come in handy. Or else (directional or aoe) party members will be pushed off n forced back to last checkpoint/start.

The difficulty can be scaled accordingly. Can even go as far as retardedly hard dungeons where there are narrow cliff edges parties have to shimmy by to get to the next area of monsters, little camp sites w/ useful food/repair in the middle of the dungeon. Yes, typical smart NPC would be safe in a city, BUT THE MERCHANTS N REPAIR NPC HERE ARE BAD N SNEAKY N REBELLIOUS N THEY HAVE SOME SPECIAL CHI WITH THE EPIC DANGEROUS CAVES.

So literally, after jumping through all that hell, n shimmying, n stun rotating, clearing 2 raids, to clear a harder raid, n now progressing through an even more hard dungeon which most people will fail miserabley on until they get the hang of things in a dungeon so beautifully structured it's literally one of a kind... players then encounter an NPC who obvi had to do the exact same thing to get to that location. Hell, maybe it's a monster NPC, n the monster is just not agressive n the monster sells/repairs.

It's 1 thing if SE can actually grasp what I'm saying, and execute it. But fine tuning it so it's perfect and enjoyable is a must if even attempting it. This is all under the assumption coding is easier w/ the 2.0 server structure and they can basically do whatever their minds imagine. Jumping platforms has been done before in thousands of video games, just implement it into an MMO while taking precision/response time into consideration, and give respectable rewards for jumping, don't make the shimmy cliff edges the same width as the Mountain in FFXI since people will get frustrated w/ simple pixels and frames resulting in their failure. Or save the very very narrow annoying ridges for thee most difficult raids. Have flying monsters or wall climbing monsters attack players on the ledge so they have to used ranged attacks to quickly dispose of them. This is basically just the journey in the dungeon, going from 1 boss to the next. The bosses themselves are another topic entirely, which atm, from what I've experienced w/ the current primal/bosses they're adequately unique from one another and if future primal/bosses continue with that pattern i'd be happy w/ it. (ofcourse everything can be improved)

And yadda yadda, the rewards for the bosses should vary. Like each boss drops maybe 1 or 2 pieces of gear, and 1 or 2 crafting mats. So, should anyone ever actually make it too the final boss of the final tier'd dungeon and successfully kill it. They will be rewarded w/ the best gear in slot (for those 2 respective types of gear), as well as crafting mats which make best in slot gear. Which cannot be obtained w/o clearing the raid (or purchasing for multiple $).

Just one idea for one type of content, not even about being end game, just strictly content. Maybe in order to enter the original 2 T1 raids you need to clear the 3 Lv30 dungeons, or kill the 3 final stronghold NMs.

CutScene
Dungeon
Tier1,2,3,4
Battle
Item Collection
Notorious Monster

Chain Quest:
CS
CS
B
CS
CS
T1D + T2D
CS
Unlock new zone.
CS
IC
CS
CS
T2.5 D
CS
T3D + T3D
CS
Unlock new zone.
CS
CS
3 NM
CS
T4D
CS
Unlock entrance to entry level raid.

All the drops from these enemies bosses can be put to use. Whether the lower tier fights drop Materia, perhaps the T1 or T2 bosses drop rings and gloves that are best in slot over t4 dungeon drops because t4 doesnt have any ring/glove drops. This is why 2-4 items (max.)drop per boss but you wouldn't be able to acquire an entire set from one chain quest/dungeons. For full set gear there can be a different form of end game. But these chain quests can be used to gain entry level gear, opposed to being able to mine/gather every piece of gear, some items, like a shining cloth or venomous claw, can only be obtained by killing.

The dungeons and end game can just get tougher and longer and more dynamic and the gear you obtain from the end game raids/instances will require multiple playthroughs. And not only that but there is alllllllways something to work towards and reveal. No, you might not get gear from some dungeons unless you're playing all 8 classes (which some of us are), but you're unlocking new zones, eventually to the point where if you just did 1 playthrough of the dungeon, unlocked the next area and cleared it, unlocked the next area and cleared it, then the next area you unlocked would be impossibley hard if your group set up had 1 or 2 pieces of gear from each of the prior dungeon/raids. Each trash mob would be the equivlent of like a Tier below its difficulty... So, the gear itself is not immensely better, but it is noticabley better then the lower tiers.

Interms of end game, and not entry level dungeons/chain quests... You'd have to do multiple run throughs, and accumulate multiple items in order to put together 1 piece of a set. And with even more runs, say you accumulate even more items but not the items in order to create the other pieces of your set, you can use the duplicate items to create a +1 version of the item. Like with Ancient Beastcoins, etc. The content can have a lockout, so once completed they wait a certain time limit in order to reenter, however, they can take as long as they want once inside to complete (diff types of end game can have timelimits or no time limits, maybe more difficult can have time limits where speed is a necessity ontop of everything else, but not on entry level raids)

Just have a variety of ways people can obtain useful gear, then have lockouts, so once completed and the lockout starts, players can do something else... FFXI did this well, and WoW did it well... Clear Serpentshrine + Tempest Keep > LS attempts to clear Mount Hyjal > Clear that > Black Temple > Clear that > Sunwell Plateau. Though raids are scaled very different in 11, wow, and 14... The concept stays the same.

[Rokien]

I'm happy we can agree on something The ^.^

[TheVedis]

I'm happy we can agree on something The ^.^

ive been yelling at people about that for years now, too many console gamers trying to get into MMOs just not understanding that its imposible to produce stuff that quickly and thus complain there is never enough content no matter how much gets added

and then they complain if any content takes too long to do lol

[Xianghua]

I am for hard content that not everyone can complete and takes time to beat. Not time til you can enter again. That is my point. I want SE to put in content that requires:

Skilled players using their skills wisely and not just combo spam.
Real tanks not just any job can stand up and be a cure bomb tank.
Mages who have to use MP efficiently.
Random attack things you can't see coming ect.
Decent gear, Can't just walk in naked and have it easy.
and much more.

But I don't want them to put in content with a bunch of time restrictions and stuff like XI had. That requires people to make a schedule for a game. That's what I hated most about XI was it was never what you wanted to do. but what the game allowed you to do. Some time restrictions ok and yes Time sinks are needed. but doesn't have to be on every single thing.

[Miyaka_Vigiles]

I started the game 2 months ago. While the paragon crown seems very hot to me, I really am trying to do other stuff instead of lvling my battle classes to 50.

Because if I get the crown I feel I will loose interest in the game and stop logging in.

Regarding gear as Velhart stated, ra/ex raid gear must be better than crafted. Infact raid gear should be around double melded crafted items.

Single meld is 100% so everyone can easly get it, raid gear will not be desirable unless its better than single meld (or have usefull effects unlike most of old XI AF gear)

[Rokien]

I am for hard content that not everyone can complete and takes time to beat. Not time til you can enter again. That is my point. I want SE to put in content that requires:

Skilled players using their skills wisely and not just combo spam.
Real tanks not just any job can stand up and be a cure bomb tank.
Mages who have to use MP efficiently.
Random attack things you can't see coming ect.
Decent gear, Can't just walk in naked and have it easy.
and much more.

But I don't want them to put in content with a bunch of time restrictions and stuff like XI had. That requires people to make a schedule for a game. That's what I hated most about XI was it was never what you wanted to do. but what the game allowed you to do. Some time restrictions ok and yes Time sinks are needed. but doesn't have to be on every single thing.

People will make a schedule no matter what..... That is a good thing about xi, is it was easy to put a schedule on. You will always need to set a date/time for ls events, you cant just be like HEY LS EVENT NOW GUYS and expect everyone to be free, if you have a schedule people can plan for it.

That also was anouther good thing, you did your event for that night, you could work on something else and better yourself for the next time you enter. Level up another sub job or do other story line stuff. It made it where you weren't confined to one thing, it made you vary it up a bit.

[Elexia]

When FFXIV has content like:

- (Insert 2 new dungeons)
- Crystal Tower
-(Insert sky garden I can't remember the name of atm, but it is a floating city already existing in XIV lore.)
-(Insert Garuda/Titan/Leviathan/Shiva)
-(insert other dungeons)

Can you safely say an organized Linkshell won't make a schedule..?

[Rokien]

As I've said before, would you guys rather GRIND(remember you people hate grinding) on ifrit for 150 times and get all weapons for a course of one month, or kill him 10 times or so for one or two weapons for a month(this is also considering if you can kill em). It makes the content have longevity.

[TheVedis]

As I've said before, would you guys rather GRIND(remember you people hate grinding) on ifrit for 150 times and get all weapons for a course of one month, or kill him 10 times or so for one or two weapons for a month(this is also considering if you can kill em). It makes the content have longevity.

when it comes to the drop rates, 1 thing i can say about them....

blame it on having NO COOLDOWN for re-entering upon winning

if there was a cooldown that was longer then a few minutes, id be all for them upping drop rates so people didnt have to do it so much, but when you can go in 2-3 times an hour....well....

thats a big thing people dont think about too, when you look at other games especialy

lets take 11 and its main bosses

yes you can do them as many times as you want and have materials to spawn them(like sky and sea mobs and such)
and they have a 100% drop rate of what, 2-3 random items off their loot list?

so you spend a ton of time farming, you go in, you get some drops, may not be what you want, but you get them


now lets look at wow, you can go in once a week to a dungeon, each boss has a 100% drop rate on 3 items, and then you gotta wait a week to do it again




now can you imagine how far all that content in those games would go if there was no wait in between any of the fights, and you could just do them over and over and over and over again without limit til you get what you want? people would throw a fit about their being no content to do anymore, and itd run dry that fast.


thats the issue we are having here. granted we havent gotten any huge dungeons yet(darkhold woulda been nicer if they gave us a reason not to zerg to the end like we do and skip everything)

so right now, we basicaly got a dungeon with chests to run to, and 4 bosses as far as instancing goes

and outside that, we have farmable coffers/bosses in strongholds


nothing of which has a cooldown, so there is nothing to stop people from buring out on it as fast as they can do it to themselves


i think that there is the biggest issue

[DoctorMog]

On the topic of marginalizing crafters:

Go back to killing NMs (Like buffalo, dodore) then crafting the endgame items that are better or equal to raid gear from the drops

Regular farmed mats (ores, leathers n junk) should not make superior armor/weapons.