Does anybody else notice a PUG issue with Savage lately?

[zuzu-bq]

The WAR strat is a gamble...it's very easy to do if you have a good ping

I've 200ms ping, and I perform it on my i353 WAR. It's not a gamble, people just don't know how to do it. I mostly go on RDM when I pug the fight so I can just do it myself and not rely on the pugs. RDM skip is actually even easier to perform, but requires a bit of gear.

[Sinh119]

Honestly, despite the fact that I've only started running Savage in the past few weeks, the majority of the fights seem to hinge completely on the healer's ability to keep everyone alive. In O5S for example, I've seen a lot of instances where Diabolic Light goes out, the OT isn't topped, and dies from the Tank Buster after the swap. In O6S when I get targeted by Prey and have to kite the stone, I'm not topped off, don't have regen and just die from Demonic Howl. O7S takes this aspect of O5 and O6 to the extreme. Die from Dada bleed right before biblio because you weren't given regen? Wipe. Die from Prey right before Biblio? Wipe. Healer eats a missle during Dada? Probably a wipe. Everyone not topped off before ink? Wipe. Not to mention simply dying from Searing Wind during virus. Now I'm not condemning healing or anything, the few times I've tried to heal have been disastrous, but this has been my observation in my limited PUG experience so far.

[Squintina]

In O6S when I get targeted by Prey and have to kite the stone, I'm not topped off, don't have regen and just die from Demonic Howl.

o.o You don't pass your prey to the OT?

Considering that o6 is full of tank busters and back to back aoes, if you're not doing your part to pass Prey to the right person, that's not on the healer for failing to heal you, that's on you for making an already healing intensive fight even harder.

[Sinh119]

o.o You don't pass your prey to the OT?

Considering that o6 is full of tank busters and back to back aoes, if you're not doing your part to pass Prey to the right person, that's not on the healer for failing to heal you, that's on you for making an already healing intensive fight even harder.

I'm not talking about Last Kiss. I'm talking about the Stone prey marker you have to kite around the arena. The one from normal mode. There have been instances where I'm not topped off before I have to kite it, move out of range from the healers and die from Demonic Howl.

[Squintina]

I'm not talking about Last Kiss. I'm talking about the Stone prey marker you have to kite around the arena. The one from normal mode. There have been instances where I'm not topped off before I have to kite it, move out of range from the healers and die from Demonic Howl.

You mean demonic stone?

If you dodge the aoe circle that follows you, you won't get hit
Also you don't have to go all around the arena, you just need to not be hitting other players. There's no reason for you to get out of range.

[Sinh119]

You mean demonic stone?

If you dodge the aoe circle that follows you, you won't get hit
Also you don't have to go all around the arena, you just need to not be hitting other players. There's no reason for you to get out of range.

I'm talking about not being topped off before the stone aoe goes off. Normally you'd have a regen anyways and it wouldn't be an issue (how far you have to run depends on the path of the other person targeted with it), but, in my own personal experience with this mechanic, there are instances where that simply hasn't been the case, and I die from Demonic Howl.

[zuzu-bq]

In O6S when I get targeted by Prey and have to kite the stone, I'm not topped off, don't have regen and just die from Demonic Howl.

Well mechanics tend to kill you if you do them wrong. I think you're part of the problem we're discussing frirend. On top of that, a lot of "healers aren't healing" complaints on PUGs is just that every damage is happening with close to no mitigation from Tanks and DPS. Healing O5S and O6S pugs is more stressing than O7S because of that.

[KaivaC]

I could buy into healing being a problem...but from experience, it's more than that. Granted, both V5S and V7S have a bit of randomness to them (more so with V5S), but it's unfair, in my opinion, to place this all on healers. Tanks and DPS have their own fair portion of the blame as well, from not doing what they're supposed to do either. As a tank, I've been able to Holmgang the Head-On, granted my healers know this ahead of time and can prepare for it. I wonder how much communication, or a lack thereof, affects these runs too. When I run V7S, I always assume ink is coming out and move away from the boss (depending on role)as a lot of PUGs don't really communicate in that fashion. It worked out for me, until I learned the exact timeline of mechanics.

[Sinh119]

I could buy into healing being a problem...but from experience, it's more than that. Granted, both V5S and V7S have a bit of randomness to them (more so with V5S), but it's unfair, in my opinion, to place this all on healers. Tanks and DPS have their own fair portion of the blame as well, from not doing what they're supposed to do either. As a tank, I've been able to Holmgang the Head-On, granted my healers know this ahead of time and can prepare for it. I wonder how much communication, or a lack thereof, affects these runs too. When I run V7S, I always assume ink is coming out and move away from the boss (depending on role)as a lot of PUGs don't really communicate in that fashion. It worked out for me, until I learned the exact timeline of mechanics.

I wasn't attempting to place all the blame on the healers, and I apologize if that seemed to be my intention. I'm not a very experienced player nor am I a particularly great player myself. However, using O6S as an example, there simply is more for the healers to do, which results in more opportunities for error and thus the responsibility for the healers is disproportionate in comparison to the responsibility for the tanks and dps. Take your average PF dps. Usually if they mess up a mechanic, it's pretty easily recoverable. Most of the time a caster will pick them up when they have downtime and they won't suffer too much from it. A healer dying is significantly more damaging to the raid.

While it's impossible to solely attribute blame to any singular role, the amount of emphasis on healer responsibility probably results in more wipes. Of course our experiences can differ, and as I said I have little experience in difficult content, but these are my observations of the matter.

[Squintina]

snip

I got that, but I was saying there's no reason for you to get out of range. I personally have never had someone out of range who was doing stone.

I will agree that the current savage do have very stringent healing requirements that if not met are going to make the run nearly impossible (especially for o7).

But sadly a lot of times in pugs those healing requirements become even tougher because of other players making the fight harder.