Stop with the pay to win advanages for retainers, suggestions on fixes

[Sigma-Astra]

The symphony complaint by Mikki I don't really get mostly because, regardless if the SE brand is on it, high end musical concerts like symphonies and orchestras have always been luxury items that are extremely costly in my experience. A lot of the price comes down towards the specific hall that the musicians are playing in and that's actually a huge part of the pricing. Those musicians don't get to play there for free, they need to pay the music hall for accommodating their guests, their musical troupe, the stage, the sound system technicians, the lighting technicians, visual fx technicians (if any), the announcers/narrators (if any), audio equipment, etc..and this is how most music halls stay in business, they reap a significant portion of the profits from ticket sales. The ticket sales is what pays for the music hall, performer's salaries, and maintenance on their instruments. So, when you're going to see an orchestra, you're paying for their livelihoods basically so that they may continue to perform in places of interest and continue doing what they love.

It's not just an SE thing mind you, it's just a common business practice. Now, whether or not they make enough funds to cover the costs of the hall, their performer's salaries, and other things? That I can't say. They could be making more than enough, not enough at all, or they could be simply breaking even. It's too hard to tell without an actual fiscal report from SE concerning their symphonies. But, to assume that they're making bank off of them...? Eh, I think that's being a little too presumptuous really in my honest opinion. So, take that as you will, you know?

So, I just feel that we could probably leave the symphonies out of it since they're expensive in order to cover the costs of hosting an orchestra. Musicians of that caliber and quality are the best of the best, and you're paying to hear it, especially in a hall that has a good acoustic system set-up where it doesn't matter from where you're sitting, the music you hear is crystal clear and resounding.

I don't mean to prattle on off-topic...I really enjoy orchestras and the wonderful music that they bring to the table and I love going to see ballets like the Nutcracker and stuff with a live orchestra... u_u;

[Embercrisp]

If you think this app will change game play in the game and make people be able to "control the MB" you are delusional. People have had max retainers for a long time and now that they have a option to upgrade another we want to start crying around?

[Rinuko]

If you think this app will change game play in the game and make people be able to "control the MB" you are delusional. People have had max retainers for a long time and now that they have a option to upgrade another we want to start crying around?

+1
I've had max retainers since it was introduced. I hardly control any market on the MB.

To be perfectly honest, the apps concept (imo) is garbage. They want real money to change MB listing via mobile phones etc. Anyone who pays for that is stupid.

I'm not sure i'd go as far calling anyone 'stupid' for using the app. How people chose to spend their money is their thing.
I'd like to add to Vstar and anyone who gonna bash on this comment that i don't think a majority will use the premium plan and ruin the market

[Vstarstruck]

If you think this app will change game play in the game and make people be able to "control the MB" you are delusional. People have had max retainers for a long time and now that they have a option to upgrade another we want to start crying around?

No you are delusional.

See now you are back to calling it pay to win again. Actually, the most comical thing

Items that you have to obtain in the first place.

You only say this because you do not know what pay to win means. he most comical thing here is not being able to see what pay to win is. You pay real life money for an advantage, all it means, me and Momomi explained time and time again you are not understanding what it means. You are taking the word "win" and auguring semantics too literally. Retainers always been pay to win, the only difference now vs then is how much tolerance there was to it, that yet again people are ingoring what I and Momomi had to say on the matter (and others)

And once you have enough gils to buy everything you need, gils are worthless. And any serious farmer can earn enough gils to buy new items every time they're released, and nobody cares how many gils other people have so there's no competitive aspect of it.

See? look how little understanding you have on the subject. Why are you even posting if you are unwilling to try to understand what people are telling you? Just because you do not care, does not change the fact it is a pay to win system.

so what i learn from this thread is OP want to take control the MB but she/he cant do that because there is optional retainer

there is no P2W tbh,it will be different story when there is no free retainer at all.

maybe SE need to make another currency for rent a retainer and you can buy it with real money or gil for win win solution.let say that "A" currency cost is 1mil gil so you need 5mil/month (for 5 "A" currency) to rent 5 retainer

I gave the solution in the first post, STOP SELLING sale space!!!! anything past 2 retainers, do not let them sell items, not hard. I find it amusing everyone trying to defend this not pay to win is trying to ignore buying more sell slots.

[Reynhart]

You only say this because you do not know what pay to win means.

No, I'm posting because your made up definition is not convincing. And you can explain it again and again, it's still a made up definition. Saying it over and over won't make it magically true. What baffles me is that you don't seem to ask yourself why it is called "pay-to-win" in the first place.

Again, the article quoted by Momomi contains several keywords regarding the mindset behind pay-to-win and none of them apply to this app...or to retainers.

[KuuroYuuki]

I gave the solution in the first post, STOP SELLING sale space!!!! anything past 2 retainers, do not let them sell items, not hard. I find it amusing everyone trying to defend this not pay to win is trying to ignore buying more sell slots.

and then there will be another thread like this from ppl who already pay retainer rent

make some limitation to system not easy as you say btw.

have many sale space is useless since there is ppl who undercut price.i always do undercut 5k-10k gil and my sale space always empty 30min after i put items in it.

if you really want gil so bad just do undercut and your sale spaces will empty,it useless to complain about additional retainer sale spaces anyway.

and then what the point of this thread anyway?force your argument or find solution for retainer "problem" that you make?

[SinisterJoints]

You only say this because you do not know what pay to win means. he most comical thing here is not being able to see what pay to win is. You pay real life money for an advantage, all it means, me and Momomi explained time and time again you are not understanding what it means. You are taking the word "win" and auguring semantics too literally. Retainers always been pay to win, the only difference now vs then is how much tolerance there was to it, that yet again people are ingoring what I and Momomi had to say on the matter (and others)




See? look how little understanding you have on the subject. Why are you even posting if you are unwilling to try to understand what people are telling you? Just because you do not care, does not change the fact it is a pay to win system.





I gave the solution in the first post, STOP SELLING sale space!!!! anything past 2 retainers, do not let them sell items, not hard. I find it amusing everyone trying to defend this not pay to win is trying to ignore buying more sell slots.

Wait wait, this is great...

Let me get this straight.... out of MY ENTIRE POST you quote this " See now you are back to calling it pay to win again. Actually, the most comical thing ".... and then respond to a half arse quoted line with some dodgy response? Pretty much ignoring the meat and potatoes of my post to "fit" your agenda.. see what I did there?

Ill be honest Vstar, with a hidden lodestone you arent going to convince me that your opinion matters at all.

You probably aren't max on all crafter/gatherer, and have only the base amount of retainers (which is 2) lol...

[Paladinleeds]

Ill be honest Vstar, with a hidden lodestone you arent going to convince me that your opinion matters at all.

You probably aren't max on all crafter/gatherer, and have only the base amount of retainers (which is 2) lol...

I've looked at their Lodestone (wasn't hidden for me strangely enough), they have BLM 60 and ACN 27. That's it! Nothing else is unlocked. So take that for what you will.

[Lilseph]

I've looked at their Lodestone (wasn't hidden for me strangely enough), they have BLM 60 and ACN 27. That's it! Nothing else is unlocked. So take that for what you will.

Yeah, it's not hidden, but it's an alt account.

I really don't know why they stick with that definition from Wikipedia, to be honest. They are constantly saying the "WIN" part is subjective and can be taken as an advantage. That's not what the article ACTUALLY states. It doesn't mention anywhere that it's not a WIN in its most literal term. But after being completely subjective, they end up their arguments with "It's P2W". Reminds me of this phrase: "If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself."

If you rely a piece of information, you need to be objective about it and not give it your own meaning to fit your agenda. That's manipulation of information.

[Redname]

Calling pay to win to this is a joke. What exactly are you winning? Control over the market?
I have been playing for some months and i have a lv70 black mage with equipment lv295. True, im no the most experienced. But in all this time i didnt need the market so much. This isnt a pay to win game where you have to buy cash items to upgrade your armour. And about inventory space i cant complain. I have a miner retainer and a botanist one. I store all kind of material on them and i still have space for more. I could even use the chocobo saddle.
So idk where you see the pay to win