Stop with the pay to win advanages for retainers, suggestions on fixes

[ErryK]

I am bookmarking this thread for later reference for when this app is released and people complain about that one person doing market control due to the ptw aspect and concern, I can say I told you so, and that I warned people ahead of time

People are already doing that without "pay to win" aspects. :/

[akaneakki]

I am bookmarking this thread for later reference for when this app is released and people complain about that one person doing market control due to the ptw aspect and concern, I can say I told you so, and that I warned people ahead of time

Yea do that, because people who play this game already with less retainers, inlcluding myself made 5 times more gil than those with more retainers. Besides like someone else said in here, making alt gives you free 2 more retainers to sell items on. So I gues it's pay to win to pay that extra small fee for sub or those who wish to use subcards get free retainers on alt is pay to win. Don't forget if someone already paid for their retainers, you can also have the extra same amount of retainers on alt as well. But you never once stated that right? Just saying the app itself gives pay to win, but forgot there is way more ways to get retainers in game.

[AlexanderThorolund]

I am bookmarking this thread for later reference for when this app is released and people complain about that one person doing market control due to the ptw aspect and concern, I can say I told you so, and that I warned people ahead of time

I hate to cause offence because you obviously feel like what your OP said had to be said, but I don’t think anyone cares about any future developments in your mindset produce.

[DPZ2]

Even the wiki "definition" [an extremely loaded term: since wikis can be edited by anyone, it isn't a dictionary definition] that was quoted included the following: A common suggestion for avoiding pay-to-win is that payments should only be used to broaden the experience without affecting gameplay.

Gameplay, in this case, revolves around MMO basics: story quests, dungeon instances, alliance instances, gear progression, socialization. You know, the main reasons we play a game.

Meta-games "broaden the experience without affecting gameplay". The meta-game the OP wants to play, apparently, is "Win the Market Board". As noted previously by others, that game doesn't require more than 2 retainers.

A second meta-game, "Best Dressed Cat-boy" might have once needed more than 2 retainers. You notice that when SE moved that meta-game into gameplay they also created Fashion Plates and the Glamour Chest so that those extra retainers were not a requirement ...

[Vstarstruck]

Yea do that, because people who play this game already with less retainers, inlcluding myself made 5 times more gil than those with more retainers. Besides like someone else said in here, making alt gives you free 2 more retainers to sell items on. So I gues it's pay to win to pay that extra small fee for sub or those who wish to use subcards get free retainers on alt is pay to win. Don't forget if someone already paid for their retainers, you can also have the extra same amount of retainers on alt as well. But you never once stated that right? Just saying the app itself gives pay to win, but forgot there is way more ways to get retainers in game.

I did:

I explained it several times! This is the last time I am going to try due to post quota limits.

They get an extra retainer, 20 more items to list, and can price change items as they are in a craft. Remember how ptw is defined:


FFXIV is officially the first game that has ptw aspects in it while having a mandatory sub cost on top of it. You are paying IRL money fro an advantage, how much that advantage matters is subjective, but it is still there. 10 ventures at once vs 2, 40 items on the mv vs 400. that is ptw advantages.

expanding on this in a worse case situation:
Some crafters do duel accounts with extra retainers. So lets say someone with a lot of IRL money and in game wants to market control. They can have the main, alt and a secondary chr on one of those accounts access another 10 retainers. With this you have one person controlling 1200 different items. With how the MB works, one person does have too much power and this app will push things over the edge. Market control is this, you buy out an item completely, allowing you to inflate the price. No one can do anything since the person will keep buying said item out. With the glam weekles, like this week being attached to a very limited resource like airship only obtained, the impact on this is quite significant. You just do not see it because you are not heavy with MB control and gil making.

bold for ease I guess. those 1200 items are quickly access too, no wait for log and switch. Just because you think " including myself made 5 times more gil than those with more retainers." does not make it fact across the board, no it is not always true. You jsut want to deny this is pay to win, for whatever reason, I do not know.

Gameplay, in this case, revolves around MMO basics: story quests, dungeon instances, alliance instances, gear progression, socialization. You know, the main reasons we play a game.

Some people's main gameplay is to craft and earn gil, so you are wrong there, also what about that thread where word first clear had alt bot gathering FC to gather and craft to help the first world clear (potions)?

[Derio]

Do you both already played Fair games that become Pay to win over the time? They started with simple moves like these ones from SE. Anything more than cosmetic/glamour is somewhat pay to win. Retainers can control economy, so you pay to win at economy. You can have a lot of retainers, so a lot of ventures, a lot of gill and mats, so pay to win more. As you can see, only with these examples, it's not only cosmetic, while there's much more examples.

By that example. FFXIV went P2W a long time ago. If someone has 9 retainers compared to someone who has only 2. App or no App, if that person has no life and can stay on ffxiv all day, then they win

[JohnnyDevo]

I have several problems with this viewpoint.

How are additional retainers P2W when you still need to go through all the effort? You don't automatically have all the items that you need to be selling on the marketboard. To list one more retainer's worth of items, you still have to craft/gather/otherwise acquire an additional retainer's worth of items to list. Or maybe you're thinking about an extra venture every hour? You still have to acquire the venture currency.

Even accepting that somehow this translates into paying money for extra gil... how is having gil p2w? here's my experience with having gil:
- become an omnicrafter
- sell items when I feel like making them
- stormblood launches
- take advantage of market
- decide 30 million gil is enough
- go through two raid tiers, starting at full HQ crafted
- sell consumables whenever I feel like it
- buy a house and relocate it during the rush
- fully furnish house
- continue to sell consumables whenever I feel like it
- still have 20 million

Here's what I estimate my experience would have been if I had more retainers:
- become an omnicrafter
- sell items when I feel like making them
- occasionally fill my third retainer up, thus selling items a bit faster
- stormblood launches
- take advantage of market
- decide 30 million gil is enough
- go through two raid tiers, starting at full HQ crafted
- sell consumables whenever I feel like it
- wonder why I'm wasting money on a third retainer
- buy a house and relocate it during the rush
- fully furnish house
- continue to sell consumables whenever I feel like it
- still have 20 million
- wonder why I'm wasting money on a third retainer

[Shouko]

Hmm

[Divinemights]

Is this one of those daily dramatic thread?

[Shouko]

Is this one of those daily dramatic thread?

It's a Vstar complaint thread so yes..