Stop with the pay to win advanages for retainers, suggestions on fixes

[KyralRetsam]

[NanaWiloh]

KyralRetsam, you just made my day

[MomomiMomi]

Having an additionnal retainer doesn't create gils. To sell those additionnal ten items you'd still have to craft/gather/drop them or the materials/crystals you need for them, and thus, you'll invest more time "farming" gils. It has nothing to do with simply buying gils.

Retainer ventures create items that you can then sell. At certain times this can be +100k or more per hour if you had max retainers and sold everything.

[Reynhart]

No different than a small business with 2 locations vs another small business with 10

Except you still have only one person providing stock for all those locations. If we both sell the same fast selling items and I have more playtime to replenish my stock, I'll sell more than you even with one less retainer.
Remember that, without the app, you can already have access to 16 retainers "for free", unless you have an Entry account.

[Mahrze]

Except you still have only one person providing stock for all those locations.

This is a serious point of contention. But we can agree to disagree. I don't see it as P2W, but the extra venues available for rent are not negligible advantages (when used right) them being optional notwithstanding.

[Reynhart]

I don't see it as P2W, but the extra venues available for rent are not negligible advantages (when used right) them being optional notwithstanding.

They sure are interesting QoL changes for those that buy the app, but it offers nothing valuable for what can be considered competitive in FFXIV. Basically, PvP and World First Race.

[alimdia]

Having an additionnal retainer doesn't create gils.

Sub tokens don't create gil either, just like retainers it creates an item you can sell for gil, yet everyone goes up in arms when sub tokens are proposed.

In fact I'm pretty sure sub tokens are what is keeping WoW at a fraction of the microtransactions this game has, they don't have to lock exclusive outfits or game features behind premium apps so the impact of that is much lower than what we have right now with the fastest growing p2p cash shop in the entire industry.

But I disgress, the point is that someone with 10 retainers has 200 selling slots, someone with 2 retainers has 40 selling slots. Someone with 10 retainers can get 100 to 300 mats per hour, someone with 2 retainers can get 20 to 60 items per hour. That's not convenience, that's a clear advantage being gained. Additional retainers should be storage only.

[Mahrze]

They sure are interesting QoL changes for those that buy the app, but it offers nothing valuable for what can be considered competitive in FFXIV. Basically, PvP and World First Race.

At this point, its more of what each "considers competitive" based on individual experience and their respective environs. But again, we can easily disagree, I respect your pov and can see where you come from. But to many and more often than no, it's not exactly a "non-issue".

[Vstarstruck]

Sub tokens don't create gil either, just like retainers it creates an item you can sell for gil, yet everyone goes up in arms when sub tokens are proposed.
In fact I'm pretty sure sub tokens are what is keeping WoW at a fraction of the microtransactions this game has, they don't have to lock exclusive outfits or game features behind premium apps so the impact of that is much lower than what we have right now with the fastest growing p2p cash shop in the entire industry.

But I disgress, the point is that someone with 10 retainers has 200 selling slots, someone with 2 retainers has 40 selling slots. Someone with 10 retainers can get 100 to 300 mats per hour, someone with 2 retainers can get 20 to 60 items per hour. That's not convenience, that's a clear advantage being gained. Additional retainers should be storage only.

Yep it is clearly pay to win advantages, how people do not see that I got no clue. Note when I say I used to, before "seeing the light" when my bill came in, but I used to "solo" supply 12 x 20 retainers keeping those 20 slots full. I forget what my absolute max was, as in slower days meant making more items.

To make matters worse there are people that have craft bots, so having a second account with this, having the second account bot as the first does other content, then when they are done with the day, can put stuff for sale on 7 other alts on the main account, getting access up to 3200 slots just off 2 accounts. The snow ball effect is real and they did not consider the impacts of such effects?

Having 2 mains and 14 alts with retainer access is not exactly hard or take long esp with duelboxing, you can get retainer access in about 2 hrs from having the other PL the alt. It only takes one person to go this far to own the MB for their server. maybe pay to win is not exactly right, for about 70 dollars a month (plus microtansactions) you can own the MB on your server. Pay to dominate? pay to rule? i doono

I will be further amused if there is that someone that has 14 phones while they can manage each alt chr per phone as they control the markets, though I am not sure if that type of person is paying this game but I know they exist when you have people spending 10k+ each month on phone games.

[AdamFyi]

That's not convenience, that's a clear advantage being gained.

It depends. The worth of an extra retainer varies between each player. For someone who doesn’t craft or gather, they’ll likely struggle at hitting the item selling cap with the two free retainers that they already have. For someone who focuses on crafting and/or gathering rather than PvE, they’ll struggle with having enough ventures to supply all their retainers.

I’ve personally never seen these incentives as having that big of an advantage over players who can’t afford them; That obviously does not negate other player’s opinions either. As I said earlier, the value depends on the player themselves. To some, extra space and ventures are forms of pay-for-convenience and is rarely used to actually “win” anything. To someone who wants to play the market and amass a fortune, it can be seen that way in which case it does become a valid point to bring up.